Uncle Leo 16 Posted May 25, 2006 Without a doubt IMO. I was just reading a article on espn.com and came across this: Barry Bonds 2002 Homeruns 46 Ks 47 Barry Bonds 2004 Homeruns 45 Ks 41 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Garcia 8 Posted May 25, 2006 Because he has as many HRs as SOs he is the best player of his generation? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 541 Posted May 25, 2006 This is a joke, right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kilroy69 1,099 Posted May 25, 2006 The rocket is the best player of the generation that bonds comes from. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uncle Leo 16 Posted May 25, 2006 This is a joke, right? Please answer the question in a yes or no! The rocket is the best player of the generation that bonds comes from. You think Clemens never took performance enhancement vitamins? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hoytdwow 202 Posted May 25, 2006 performance enhancement vitamins? are they illegal? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeremy 0 Posted May 25, 2006 Him, or the aforementioned Roger Clemens, I would say. Certainly the best hitter of his generation, as much as I can't stand the guy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kilroy69 1,099 Posted May 25, 2006 Please answer the question in a yes or no! You think Clemens never took performance enhancement vitamins? Centrum silver maybe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uncle Leo 16 Posted May 25, 2006 only 232 hits away from 3000! ...I'm more interested in seeing if he gets to 3000 than the Hank Aaron HR total. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 541 Posted May 25, 2006 Please answer the question in a yes or no! Oh, sorry. No Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mungwater 593 Posted May 25, 2006 only 232 hits away from 3000!...I'm more interested in seeing if he gets to 3000 than the Hank Aaron HR total. If there is any justice in the world, he won't get either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kilroy69 1,099 Posted May 25, 2006 If there is any justice in the world, he won't get either. Because he was hit by a train. Too harsh? Ok.. a bus. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uncle Leo 16 Posted May 25, 2006 If there is any justice in the world, he won't get either. You act like he killed or raped someone. The man man took some performance enhancement medication to help him a hit the ball 50 feet further. The man has some other great sats besides the HR total. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shovelheadt 68 Posted May 25, 2006 You act like he killed or raped someone. The man man took some performance enhancement medication to help him a hit the ball 50 feet further. The man has some other great sats besides the HR total. But some of those other stats are a direct result of him hitting the ball 50ft further, thus more home runs, thus more intentional walks, thus less Ks, thus a higher on base percentage. I'm not a hater though. One of the best ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TAS 2 Posted May 25, 2006 Pfffttt! Barry Shmarry. Omar Vizquel is easily 1000x the player Barry is! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rybo5 0 Posted May 25, 2006 I assume he has the distinctiom of being one of the few baseball players ever to hit his prime in his mid 30's. I'm sure the illegal performance enhancing drugs had nothing to do with it though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uncle Leo 16 Posted May 26, 2006 I assume he has the distinctiom of being one of the few baseball players ever to hit his prime in his mid 30's. I'm sure the illegal performance enhancing drugs had nothing to do with it though. SEASON TEAM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS 1990 Pit 151 519 104 156 32 3 33 114 93 83 52 13 .301 .406 .565 .971 1991 Pit 153 510 95 149 28 5 25 116 107 73 43 13 .292 .410 .514 .924 1992 Pit 140 473 109 147 36 5 34 103 127 69 39 8 .311 .456 .624 1.080 1993 SF 159 539 129 181 38 4 46 123 126 79 29 12 .336 .458 .677 1.135 1994 SF 112 391 89 122 18 1 37 81 74 43 29 9 .312 .426 .647 1.073 1995 SF 144 506 109 149 30 7 33 104 120 83 31 10 .294 .431 .577 1.008 1996 SF 158 517 122 159 27 3 42 129 151 76 40 7 .308 .461 .615 1.076 1997 SF 159 532 123 155 26 5 40 101 145 87 37 8 .291 .446 .585 1.031 1998 SF 156 552 120 167 44 7 37 122 130 92 28 12 .303 .438 .609 1.047 ...these are Barry's amazing stats from the age of 25 til he was 33. How did he hit his prime in the mid 30's? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gocolts 300 Posted May 26, 2006 Nope.No.Noway.Not even close,bub. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 541 Posted May 26, 2006 SEASON TEAM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS 1990 Pit 151 519 104 156 32 3 33 114 93 83 52 13 .301 .406 .565 .971 1991 Pit 153 510 95 149 28 5 25 116 107 73 43 13 .292 .410 .514 .924 1992 Pit 140 473 109 147 36 5 34 103 127 69 39 8 .311 .456 .624 1.080 1993 SF 159 539 129 181 38 4 46 123 126 79 29 12 .336 .458 .677 1.135 1994 SF 112 391 89 122 18 1 37 81 74 43 29 9 .312 .426 .647 1.073 1995 SF 144 506 109 149 30 7 33 104 120 83 31 10 .294 .431 .577 1.008 1996 SF 158 517 122 159 27 3 42 129 151 76 40 7 .308 .461 .615 1.076 1997 SF 159 532 123 155 26 5 40 101 145 87 37 8 .291 .446 .585 1.031 1998 SF 156 552 120 167 44 7 37 122 130 92 28 12 .303 .438 .609 1.047 ...these are Barry's amazing stats from the age of 25 til he was 33. How did he hit his prime in the mid 30's? Post 1999 through 2005. It'll become much clearer to you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uncle Leo 16 Posted May 26, 2006 Post 1999 through 2005.It'll become much clearer to you. More homeruns and more walks, but he was in his prime during 90 to 98. Look at his stolenbase totals after 98. Look at his fielding after 98. He was a five-tool player during his prime(90-98)! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Invision Power Board 0 Posted May 26, 2006 More homeruns and more walks, but he was in his prime during 90 to 98. Look at his stolenbase totals after 98. Look at his fielding after 98. He was a five-tool player during his prime(90-98)! He was a six tool player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uncle Leo 16 Posted May 26, 2006 EIGHT gold gloves from 1990 to 1998! that is a player in his prime. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gocolts 300 Posted May 26, 2006 EIGHT gold gloves from 1990 to 1998!that is a player in his prime. No,that is someone on the juice Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rybo5 0 Posted May 26, 2006 More homeruns and more walks, but he was in his prime during 90 to 98. Look at his stolenbase totals after 98. Look at his fielding after 98. He was a five-tool player during his prime(90-98)! I agree that he was an overall better player pre drugs, but his druggie years are what allowed him to get or approach these records. That's the whole point. No one thinks Bonds stinks or anything like that. He's one of the best players in the history of the game. The problem is that he took these illegal drugs, benefited greatly from them, and then proceeded to lie profusely about it. Also, you forgot to mention that he had a higher batting average, higher on base percentage, higher slugging percentage, and a higher OPS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mulletia 0 Posted May 26, 2006 I'll take griffey jr thanks and a five tool player is one that plays defense at what point was barry considered a great defenseive player? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 541 Posted May 26, 2006 I agree that he was an overall better player pre drugs, but his druggie years are what allowed him to get or approach these records. That's the whole point. No one thinks Bonds stinks or anything like that. He's one of the best players in the history of the game. The problem is that he took these illegal drugs, benefited greatly from them, and then proceeded to lie profusely about it. Exactly. And now his fans expect everyone to forget about the pumpkinhead steroid years and pretend that he should be remembered for being the great hitter/fielder/baserunner that he used to be when he was playing on a level playing field with everyone else. Sorry, but once you decide to cheat the game, you no onger are remembered for how good you used to be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
potts17 4 Posted May 26, 2006 Barry is one of the top 5 best players ever to play the game. Regardless if he juiced or not, still an amazing player. Until someone can show me proof than noone else that ever played baseball cheated, who knows what they had back in the 50's and 60's, maybe some horse steroid or something, I will never discredit anything Barry has done. First off we don't have physical proof that Barry ever did anything, possibly the cream and clear, but everything else that has been said has not been proven, just written about in a few books. I don't doubt that he did take something at some point in his career though. But how can we say that Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, or Cal Ripken (that's a lot of games to stay healthy for, think about it) didn't take something to help them recover from injuries and recover from working out quicker. We can't, the media back then could have cared less if they had taken something, but to come down on Bonds who the media hate (don't blame them, not the nicest guy in the clubhouse or in public) is just not fair. You don't hear much talk of Palmero, Mcgwire, or Giambi (who admitted he took steroids). Nope only Bonds, so if he came out and said yep I took steroids, would everyone leave him alone? No, they would want him kicked out of the league, all his stats wiped off the books and never be eligible for the Hall of Fame. I didn't see them taking away Giambi's MVP trophy from when he was juicing. Just my $.02. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lagarzlebrew 0 Posted May 26, 2006 Barry is one of the top 5 best players ever to play the game. Regardless if he juiced or not, still an amazing player. Until someone can show me proof than noone else that ever played baseball cheated, who knows what they had back in the 50's and 60's, maybe some horse steroid or something, I will never discredit anything Barry has done. First off we don't have physical proof that Barry ever did anything, possibly the cream and clear, but everything else that has been said has not been proven, just written about in a few books. I don't doubt that he did take something at some point in his career though. But how can we say that Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, or Cal Ripken (that's a lot of games to stay healthy for, think about it) didn't take something to help them recover from injuries and recover from working out quicker. We can't, the media back then could have cared less if they had taken something, but to come down on Bonds who the media hate (don't blame them, not the nicest guy in the clubhouse or in public) is just not fair. You don't hear much talk of Palmero, Mcgwire, or Giambi (who admitted he took steroids). Nope only Bonds, so if he came out and said yep I took steroids, would everyone leave him alone? No, they would want him kicked out of the league, all his stats wiped off the books and never be eligible for the Hall of Fame. I didn't see them taking away Giambi's MVP trophy from when he was juicing. Just my $.02. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZeroTolerance 583 Posted May 26, 2006 'Performance enhancement medication" LOFL! You make it sound like Barry was popping Viagra. Then again, I wouldnt be surprised if Palmeiro shared some little white pills with Bonds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdbrain3X 0 Posted May 26, 2006 I agree that he was an overall better player pre drugs, but his druggie years are what allowed him to get or approach these records. That's the whole point. No one thinks Bonds stinks or anything like that. He's one of the best players in the history of the game. The problem is that he took these illegal drugs, benefited greatly from them, and then proceeded to lie profusely about it. Also, you forgot to mention that he had a higher batting average, higher on base percentage, higher slugging percentage, and a higher OPS. Agreed! You don't hear much talk of Palmero, Mcgwire, or Giambi (who admitted he took steroids). : Palmeiro got nailed and destroyed by fans(to the point that he wore earplugs at bat) and is out of BB. McGuire only fooled the media not the knowlegdeable fans outside of St. Louis, looked like a fool in front of the Senate and has long been out of BB. Giambi admitted use in front of a Grand Jury(unlike Barry who will be in front of that same Grand Jury for perjury) and plays on. The man won't admit despite the obvious use and that is why he is chastised. He deserves everything he gets. Except Hank Aaron's record! If he get's there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GettnHuge 1 Posted May 26, 2006 Barry is one of the top 5 best players ever to play the game. babe ruth ty cobb ted williams cy young willie mays well shucks maybe he's top 10 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bratwurst 0 Posted May 26, 2006 Did someone else say this .... Like LT changed the NFL, admitted drug user and was a dominant player. He was never properly tested. He has never said for sure if he did cocaine before a game ... and changed the sport. The best football player, I ever saw play at Arizona was Bruschi. He had a motor, know what I mean, he influenced the entire team to another level. Roids? I think he's clean, mostly. He's like Romo, just fired up, naturally ... he's an AZ Wildcat. Bear Down. Or was he on drugs. Naaaahhhhhhhhhhh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bratwurst 0 Posted May 26, 2006 Oh, and don't forget what Bo knows. Bo Jackson knows he pushed his body too far and got hurt. Coulda, shoulda ... with Allen .... DA RAIHDAHS! I gotta say, Bo Jackson, in his prime, maybe, just maybe, be the best player ... in the history, of sports. Uhhh .... Didn't Jason Seahorn do some modelling though? That's gotta count for sumthin' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,136 Posted May 26, 2006 Because he has as many HRs as SOs he is the best player of his generation? 7 MVPs 8 Gold Gloves 12 Silver Sluggers 2 Batting titles Career 1.053 ops 700+ home runs 2300+ walks 500+ Stolen bases 2700+ hits Best player of his generation? With Ease. Try the best player EVER. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 541 Posted May 26, 2006 7 MVPs8 Gold Gloves 12 Silver Sluggers 2 Batting titles Career 1.053 ops 700+ home runs 2300+ walks 500+ Stolen bases 2700+ hits Best player of his generation? With Ease. Try the best player EVER. Great player. yes. No doubt about it. These stats are greatly enhanced by his steroid/growth hormone/cattle enhancing drug use, though. At his pre-steroid pace, he would have probably ended around 450-500 home runs. His increased home run totals earned him hundreds of walks which inflated his on base percentage. Alot of his home runs would have been flyouts without the boost that roids gave him, so drop the average and hits significantly. The only stats that aren't chemically enhanced are the gold gloves and stolen bases. I'm not going to sit here just because I hate him and diminish how great a player he was, but he's nowhere near the best player ever. Argueably top twenty, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surferskin 30 Posted May 26, 2006 hooray, another barry bonds thread!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,136 Posted May 26, 2006 Great player. yes. No doubt about it.These stats are greatly enhanced by his steroid/growth hormone/cattle enhancing drug use, though. At his pre-steroid pace, he would have probably ended around 450-500 home runs. His increased home run totals earned him hundreds of walks which inflated his on base percentage. Alot of his home runs would have been flyouts without the boost that roids gave him, so drop the average and hits significantly. The only stats that aren't chemically enhanced are the gold gloves and stolen bases. I'm not going to sit here just because I hate him and diminish how great a player he was, but he's nowhere near the best player ever. Argueably top twenty, though. That's funny Newbie, I just went to baseball-reference.com and this is what I saw. 7 MVPs 8 Gold Gloves 12 Silver Sluggers 2 Batting titles Career 1.053 ops 700+ home runs 2300+ walks 500+ Stolen bases 2700+ hits I'm sorry you can't read that well. Until I don't see those #'s, they are what they are. hth best player EVER. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 541 Posted May 26, 2006 That's funny Newbie, I just went to baseball-reference.com and this is what I saw. 7 MVPs 8 Gold Gloves 12 Silver Sluggers 2 Batting titles Career 1.053 ops 700+ home runs 2300+ walks 500+ Stolen bases 2700+ hits I'm sorry you can't read that well. Until I don't see those #'s, they are what they are. hth best player EVER. That same book also says that he hit 73 home runs one year. Didn't Rosie Ruiz win a Boston Marathon, too? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites