The Reggie Bush Discussion

[RamslovaMartzhata 3]

I was definitely driving the hype wagon pre-season. I had all but one toe off that wagon by mid-season and was starting to eat crow... But then Reggie had a solid second half. The bottom line is he ran the ball much better, and started making some big plays. So are the doubters still doubting? Are you sold on Reggie yet?

 

Finished with 155 rush's for 565 yards rushing (3.6 ypc) & 6 rushing TD's, 88 reception for 742 yards (8.4 ypr) & 2 rec TD's, and one punt return TD. 1300 total yards and 9 TD's is by no means inconsequential.

 

 

People can talk about how he isn't the prototypical running back and this and that, but personally I could care less about that argument. I would guestimate that about 75% of teams run some sort of committee approach, and regardless... what makes guys like Westbrook and Bush so special IS their versatility. I don't feel it's a negative and I see more postives out of it... I would say a good metaphor is the glass is 70% full and 30% empty at this stage in his career. The only knock on Bush is he isn't a move the pile type of RB, which in my opinion are a dime a dozen. I mean the Refridgerator lined up at RB for this purpose.

 

I continue expect good things from Bush, and think he will get better. From a fantasy perspective... I'd say he is a bonafide mid first rounder in PPR formats.

 

But more importantly... I wanted to see if opinions are swayed; there were a lot of doubters in the pre-season.

[AnaheimRams 28]

 

I continue expect good things from Bush, and think he will get better. From a fantasy perspective... I'd say he is a bonafide mid first rounder in PPR formats.

 

 

 

I don't agree with that. I'll admit that Bush helped me win a title in a PPR league after Kevin Jones went down... but... mid-first rounder?

 

Nope.

 

No way I'd want Bush leading my Fantasy team next season. I see him going around 11-16th overall at the highest... somewhere he can be put together with another solid guy from the same tier. In a non-ppr format... or even 1/2ppr... I'd drop him another 5-10 places.

 

Of course... off-season moves can change all that, and I haven't looked into Duece's status or potential to be moved.

[devildog 0]

I think he's going to be a 150-180 carry, 80-100 reception player from here on out.

[Cuse9 129]

The big question is going to be McAllister. If McAllister stays put then we can always expect Deuce to get goal line carries and most likely more carries and rushing yards.

 

IF Deuce goes, then the flood doors open. I see Bush as being an identical version of Westbrook....big difference is Bush has much more talent and would have the potential to become the #1 fantasy player. He is a bigger player than people think....6'0 and he'll add muscle as he goes. Right now there is a limit to what he'll do with Deuce in town, but if Deuce goes.......all hell breaks loose with this kid.

 

As it is: With Deuce in town, you can't rely on Reggie as your #1 back. Your #1 back should be the feature ball carrier and Bush won't be that next year. He'll go early for sure, but way too early for me to draft.........I'd say mid second rounder to late third....based souly on potential and name.

[NewbieJr 541]

He was a bust for the first half of the year, but definitely showed signs of improvement as the year progressed.

I think he realized that he wasn't playing Stanford anymore and he couldn't stand behind the line juking and dancing.

I think he's going to be a good to very-good player, but I doubt that he could possibly become what ESPN wants him to become.

[Voice_Of_Reason 0]

As it is: With Deuce in town, you can't rely on Reggie as your #1 back. Your #1 back should be the feature ball carrier and Bush won't be that next year. He'll go early for sure, but way too early for me to draft.........I'd say mid second rounder to late third....based souly on potential and name.

 

I respectfully disagree. I really depends on your scoring rules. In a PPR, he's gold. I didn't have a ground pounder on my team. PPR league with Westbrook and Bush all year. Went 11-2.

 

Where a player should gets draft really depends on the league.

[teejay booker 0]

Where a player should gets draft really depends on the league.

 

[Wayne Fontes 0]

Give him 300+ carries and I think you'd a have a player similar to Barry Sanders...in terms of how his carries would play out.....1,3,3,1,-3,1,-4,12,-3, 45 and so on...

 

If Duece is there next year and rollin' the way he was this year then Bush is a 3rd/4th rounder. if Deuce gets moved (he won't), then Bush is an early 2nd rounder..imo

[GhostofMeanMachine99 1]

The big question is going to be McAllister. If McAllister stays put then we can always expect Deuce to get goal line carries and most likely more carries and rushing yards.

 

IF Deuce goes, then the flood doors open. I see Bush as being an identical version of Westbrook....big difference is Bush has much more talent and would have the potential to become the #1 fantasy player. He is a bigger player than people think....6'0 and he'll add muscle as he goes. Right now there is a limit to what he'll do with Deuce in town, but if Deuce goes.......all hell breaks loose with this kid.

 

As it is: With Deuce in town, you can't rely on Reggie as your #1 back. Your #1 back should be the feature ball carrier and Bush won't be that next year. He'll go early for sure, but way too early for me to draft.........I'd say mid second rounder to late third....based souly on potential and name.

 

If it ain't broke, they're not gonna fix it. McAllister stays in The Big Easy, Bush is not a first round pick. 2nd rounder, yes.

[Arsenal 3]

Just curious from a financial/contract situation for NO, how long can McAllister and Bush stay there as a combo? What year would their contracts hit an un-managable point where they will be forced to pick one player?

 

Also, do you think Bush will be happy with 10 carries a game along with receiver and kick return duty when most other teams would at least give him a shot at being a featured RB? My guess is that if he continues next season like he ended this one, he will be demanding a lot more.

 

From a fantasy perspective, as long as he is not the featured RB, he is going to be wildly inconsistent. The reason you take a solid RB in the first round is to anchor your team with some consistency so IMO, even though I think he will put up good stats next year, he is not a good first round pick.

[Wildman 0]

I'm a broken record on this topic: Bush will be a elite runner within 2-3 seasons. It isn't the stats that drive this viewpoint, it's how he ran the football. The first two games and the last 4-5 games were examples of Bush running hard between the tackles. He finished runs very well and I believe the reason he died down in from games 3-11 had as much to do with getting banged up as it did with his dancing and trying to make a big play.

 

He clearly pushed too hard to make something happen with every touch because he had not scored a touchdown. He was pressing big time. I think he'll be a player that wins glamour points for his style of play but doesn't produce as much on the field as he looks good doing it. That said, I think he has a definite shot to be better than Tiki Barber at his best. I think he could have a Marshall Faulk-Roger Craig like season or two.

[gdilly 0]

No way Bush starts complaining until Saints stop winning. Would be really bad form and he seems at least somewhat aware of his image and how important it is to keeping those sponsorship dollars rolling in.

 

Definitely agreed that I wouldn't want to rely on him as my #1 back. That said, I think he's got a great chance at putting up top ten numbers next year. In my league, which gives a half point per reception, he actually was the #10 back, two spots ahead of McAlister.

 

I've got my eye on him as my #2 next year, especially since we auction draft and I don't think the other owners in my league have a very high opinion of him so I'm hoping he'll be undervalued. Shooting for nabbing him for less than $20 (15 players drafted with a $150 cap).

 

Disclaimer: I drafted him this year for $12, kept convincing myself I should start him, until I finally gave up and traded him plus RMoss and Brees for Alexander. Ended up being the biggest non-trade ever as having Alexander didn't hurt or help me (I love you Gore and MoJo!)

[Voice_Of_Reason 0]

It's the left over eggnog talking.

[Big_Pete 0]

I predicted that Bush would be more bust than stud... and I'm still on the fence about this one...

I'll know more next year when NO is handed a real schedule..... er.. nevermind. he plays in the NFC, there is no "real" schedule to be had.

I want to see more consistency from him before I lable him anything but "sometimes-decent".

[swamp dog 0]

I think he's going to be a 150-180 carry, 80-100 reception player from here on out.

 

and that's bad...how?

 

I predicted that Bush would be more bust than stud... and I'm still on the fence about this one...

I'll know more next year when NO is handed a real schedule..... er.. nevermind. he plays in the NFC, there is no "real" schedule to be had.

I want to see more consistency from him before I lable him anything but "sometimes-decent".

 

1300 total yards and 8 tds isn't too shabby.

 

who cares where the yards come from as long as he gets them? why is it that people think an rb isn't a threat or a weapon unless he's pounding the ball between the tackles 30 times a game? that's antiquated thinking.

[JT 137]

Just curious from a financial/contract situation for NO, how long can McAllister and Bush stay there as a combo? What year would their contracts hit an un-managable point where they will be forced to pick one player?

 

Also, do you think Bush will be happy with 10 carries a game along with receiver and kick return duty when most other teams would at least give him a shot at being a featured RB? My guess is that if he continues next season like he ended this one, he will be demanding a lot more.

 

From a fantasy perspective, as long as he is not the featured RB, he is going to be wildly inconsistent. The reason you take a solid RB in the first round is to anchor your team with some consistency so IMO, even though I think he will put up good stats next year, he is not a good first round pick.

 

McAllister is only 28 yrs old (doesn't turn 29 til December). He's poised for the career Corey Dillon should have had in Cincy: feature back for 5 yrs, split carries with young guy for 3 more, goal line duty after that. Dillon got ansty and moved on to NE, where he's going to be the short yardage guy for Maroney. I don't think Deuce makes the same mistake. The Saints are headed for good things, and he can stay a part of them without killing himself with 30 carries a week. He was very effective this year, with his best ypc since 2003.

 

The team can ride another couple years before they would have to make a choice due to $$$, and by then, McAllister won't have big contract options elsewhere. Injuries can always change the picture, but I see the Saints going with this combo for the forseeable future.

 

As for Bush, I think what you saw this year is what you'll get. I like Jones' Drew's NFL future better. Built better for the pounding. But, if he stays healthy and content with his role, Bush could be a very good player. He's not yet a first round ff player. Not the guy to build your team around. But he looks to be a really good #2.

[RamslovaMartzhata 3]

I predicted that Bush would be more bust than stud... and I'm still on the fence about this one...

I'll know more next year when NO is handed a real schedule..... er.. nevermind. he plays in the NFC, there is no "real" schedule to be had.

I want to see more consistency from him before I lable him anything but "sometimes-decent".

 

In my opinion... they had a fairly tough schedule

 

As for Bush, I think what you saw this year is what you'll get. I like Jones' Drew's NFL future better. Built better for the pounding. But, if he stays healthy and content with his role, Bush could be a very good player. He's not yet a first round ff player. Not the guy to build your team around. But he looks to be a really good #2.

 

I stated in a PPR league he should be a bonafide mid first rounder... I don't think those who play in non PPR realize how big those receptions are... he finished #8 or 9 this year in my league.

[Big_Pete 0]

 

1300 total yards and 8 tds isn't too shabby.

 

who cares where the yards come from as long as he gets them? why is it that people think an rb isn't a threat or a weapon unless he's pounding the ball between the tackles 30 times a game? that's antiquated thinking.

real football isn't fantasy football... so yes, where the yards come from does very much so count!

Do you consider Daunte Hall an "elite" WR? I mean, he's had in total yards....

2001=979

2002=1730

2003=1974

2004=2004

2005=2007

2006=1422

 

so.. umm... this means he's the #1 WR in the NFL since 2002 right? RIGHT?

[RamslovaMartzhata 3]

real football isn't fantasy football... so yes, where the yards come from does very much so count!

Do you consider Daunte Hall an "elite" WR? I mean, he's had in total yards....

2001=979

2002=1730

2003=1974

2004=2004

2005=2007

2006=1422

 

so.. umm... this means he's the #1 WR in the NFL since 2002 right? RIGHT?

 

 

Total yards include return yards you hater. Bush's 1300 does not include return yards.

 

I saw that you didn't think Bush was an Elite back in the other thread I started. Here's what I cazme up with to put Bush's 2nd half of the season in perspective. I threw out his best game versus SF, and his worst game (week 15 vs WAS).

 

So in six games here were his numbers:

 

57 rushes for 307 yards (5.39 ypc) - 3 TD's

33 receptions for 299 yards (9.03 ypr) - 1 TD

 

All he did was average 100 yards and half a touchdown a game. Sorry buddy that already is ELITE. Yes the hype is overwhelming... but don'tlet that fool you into not seeing a really good football player.

[bigmurd 0]

real football isn't fantasy football... so yes, where the yards come from does very much so count!

Do you consider Daunte Hall an "elite" WR? I mean, he's had in total yards....

2001=979

2002=1730

2003=1974

2004=2004

2005=2007

2006=1422

 

so.. umm... this means he's the #1 WR in the NFL since 2002 right? RIGHT?

 

 

Oh boy...

[Big_Pete 0]

Total yards include return yards you hater. Bush's 1300 does not include return yards.

 

I saw that you didn't think Bush was an Elite back in the other thread I started. Here's what I cazme up with to put Bush's 2nd half of the season in perspective. I threw out his best game versus SF, and his worst game (week 15 vs WAS).

 

So in six games here were his numbers:

 

57 rushes for 307 yards (5.39 ypc) - 3 TD's

33 receptions for 299 yards (9.03 ypr) - 1 TD

 

All he did was average 100 yards and half a touchdown a game. Sorry buddy that already is ELITE. Yes the hype is overwhelming... but don'tlet that fool you into not seeing a really good football player.

and these are the "defensive juggernauts" he faced

Bengals

at Falcons

49ers

at Cowboys

Redskins

Giants

 

Hell, any average back could average that against them... what's your point? That he is good against sh1t teams and lousy against good teams? If that's your point, then I agree 100% with you!

 

Oh boy...

what, I thought we were playing the "it doesn't matter how he get's the yards as long as he get's yards" game

[bigmurd 0]

what, I thought we were playing the "it doesn't matter how he get's the yards as long as he get's yards" game

 

The "it doesn't matter how he get's the yards as long as he get's yards" game hadn't degenerated into return yards until you brought it up. Bush has 1300 combined rushing and recieving yards this year.

[Big_Pete 0]

The "it doesn't matter how he get's the yards as long as he get's yards" game hadn't degenerated into return yards until you brought it up. Bush has 1300 combined rushing and recieving yards this year.

I think that what N.O. has going on is good.

I think Bush is still overrated. Is he decent? yes. Is he "elite" or a "stud"? Hardly!

That term should only be used to people who are consistent and who you can count on!

Hell, we dont even know what Bush is... is he a running back? is he a wide receiver? his numbers would point more towards him being a WR than a RB at this moment!

Until he settles down into his proper role and starts producing, he's always gonna be overrated!

it's like saying Vick is just as good as Manning as far as being a QB cause if you factor in his 1000 rushing yards, he's combined for about as many yards as manning... which is ridiculous! But it goes along with the "as long as he get's yards" theme.....

[Canadianfan 76]

I think that what N.O. has going on is good.

I think Bush is still overrated. Is he decent? yes. Is he "elite" or a "stud"? Hardly!

That term should only be used to people who are consistent and who you can count on!

Hell, we dont even know what Bush is... is he a running back? is he a wide receiver? his numbers would point more towards him being a WR than a RB at this moment!

Until he settles down into his proper role and starts producing, he's always gonna be overrated!

it's like saying Vick is just as good as Manning as far as being a QB cause if you factor in his 1000 rushing yards, he's combined for about as many yards as manning... which is ridiculous! But it goes along with the "as long as he get's yards" theme.....

 

Stupid Post...lost my respect bud

[Ray_T 738]

Well, I think hes worth taking... just not in the first round.

 

I'd take him if he fell to me in the second round though.

 

As a rookie with limited playing time and an injury that bothered him part of the year he was the #14 ranked Fantasy RB in our League.

 

I havnt checked, but this probably makes him about the #30th ranked player overall. All things considered, this isnt all that bad.

 

I'd expect a modest improvement on these numbers for next year, and a larger improvement If Deuce leaves the team or is traded away. Either way, I figure hes worth a 2nd round pick Next year for sure.

 

you may be able to stretch it into a late first round pick (9th or 10th overall) if Deuce leaves the team.

[swamp dog 0]

real football isn't fantasy football... so yes, where the yards come from does very much so count!

Do you consider Daunte Hall an "elite" WR? I mean, he's had in total yards....

2001=979

2002=1730

2003=1974

2004=2004

2005=2007

2006=1422

 

so.. umm... this means he's the #1 WR in the NFL since 2002 right? RIGHT?

 

in most ff leagues rushing yardage and passing yardage are the same (1 per 10), so, no, it doesn't matter where the yards come from. so i what i meant was that it doesn't matter if the yards come from EITHER RECEIVING OR RUSHING. yes, we all know that return yardage doesn't factor in at all (in most leagues). dante's yards above and almost all return yardage (save a couple hundred receiving yards each year).

 

and in ppr leagues bush goes from being solid to elite.

 

the word "bust" shouldn't be debated here at all.

[Big_Pete 0]

in most ff leagues rushing yardage and passing yardage are the same (1 per 10), so, no, it doesn't matter where the yards come from. so i what i meant was that it doesn't matter if the yards come from EITHER RECEIVING OR RUSHING. yes, we all know that return yardage doesn't factor in at all (in most leagues). dante's yards above and almost all return yardage (save a couple hundred receiving yards each year).

 

and in ppr leagues bush goes from being solid to elite.

 

the word "bust" shouldn't be debated here at all.

I thought we were talking about real life football, not fantasy....

FF, bush is a very good player, cause yeah, in FF, it doesn't matter how he get's the yardage as long as he gets it.

Again, I thought we were talking real life football... in which, I dont rank him but middle of the class as far as RB's go.

[Cavaliere19 0]

The Saints will not in the forseeable future break up the Deuce - Bush combo. It worked way to well for them this season. Eventually Bush will take over the reins and be the feature back of this offense, much in the mold of Tiki Barber, with them giving a bigger back 5-8 carries a game.

 

If Willie Parker can average 20+ carries a game and survive a season with 1300+ yards and 16 TDs Reggie Bush is certainly capable of exceeding that.

[beantownbrown 0]

and that's bad...how?

1300 total yards and 8 tds isn't too shabby.

 

who cares where the yards come from as long as he gets them? why is it that people think an rb isn't a threat or a weapon unless he's pounding the ball between the tackles 30 times a game? that's antiquated thinking.

 

exactly. i don't recall people bashin tiki barber when he was in the same role early in his career before taking over feature back duties.

 

being able to catch the ball is a huge asset. anybody using it to knock him as "not a true running back" is reaching for something to hate on bush with.

 

1300 yards and 8 TDs from scrimmage is the bottom line. that's a damn good rookie year by anybody's standards.

[manola 0]

exactly. i don't recall people bashin tiki barber when he was in the same role early in his career before taking over feature back duties.

 

being able to catch the ball is a huge asset. anybody using it to knock him as "not a true running back" is reaching for something to hate on bush with.

 

1300 yards and 8 TDs from scrimmage is the bottom line. that's a damn good rookie year by anybody's standards.

 

Agreed. Big Pete's arguments are retarded.

 

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet.

 

From Rotoworld:

"Deuce McAllister will reportedly be available in offseason trade talks.

 

Impact: We're not sure why New Orleans would want to get rid of him; Reggie Bush finished the regular season strong but benefits from McAllister taking inside carries. McAllister would likely command at least a second-round pick as compensation."

[jgcrawfish 232]

I agree it depends somewhat on the league rules for everyone. PPR league he's gold, top 10 back easily, and going to get better. In standard non-ppr leagues he's a top 20 back and will also get better. I'd earmark him for a 3rd-4th round pick. If Deuce goes somewhere else, Reggie moves up probably 8-10 spots and 1-2 rounds. He's good enough to make me wish I'd drafted him when I had the chance.