Would Marvin Harrison be HOF bound if He played for another team ?

[The Moz 69]

Would Marvin still be a future first ballot ( or at all ) HOF guy ( He will end with the 2nd greatest WR stats ever next to Jerry ) If he had to have average QB's throw the ball to him ? Seems to me Peyton has made Marvin more than vice versa. Seems like Harrison catches the pass and looks for the closest place to slide or go down - even in the playoffs the guy really never looked to gain YAC unless it was clear. It's like he sees defenders he curls up in fetal position and waits for the big bad defenders to go away.

 

Granted the guy did gelp me win a league last seaosn it just a little strange the double standard. Other WRs would get crucified and labeled as cowards for playing the way Harrison does yet he is called being smart for doing this ?

 

Back to topic - Would Marvin playing the way he does of been able to excell enough to be in HOF conversation under say QB's like J,. Garcia , D. Carr , B. Leftwich , Pennington ETC.

 

Personally IMO Harrison would be known as a nice WR but nothing more than like a I. Bruce or D. Driver ( W/O Drivers fearlessness ) .

 

thoughts ?

[Jetdoc 20]

You could say the same thing for Rice, since he had Montana and Young passing to him all of those years.

 

It's really hard to disassociate the WR with the QB. There are only a handful of HoF wideouts that really excelled with crappy QB's.

[Gepetto 1,192]

Why no love for Marvin? What did he ever do to you?

[Jesus Christ 0]

Would Marvin still be a future first ballot ( or at all ) HOF guy ( He will end with the 2nd greatest WR stats ever next to Jerry ) If he had to have average QB's throw the ball to him ? Seems to me Peyton has made Marvin more than vice versa. Seems like Harrison catches the pass and looks for the closest place to slide or go down - even in the playoffs the guy really never looked to gain YAC unless it was clear. It's like he sees defenders he curls up in fetal position and waits for the big bad defenders to go away.

 

Granted the guy did gelp me win a league last seaosn it just a little strange the double standard. Other WRs would get crucified and labeled as cowards for playing the way Harrison does yet he is called being smart for doing this ?

 

Back to topic - Would Marvin playing the way he does of been able to excell enough to be in HOF conversation under say QB's like J,. Garcia , D. Carr , B. Leftwich , Pennington ETC.

 

Personally IMO Harrison would be known as a nice WR but nothing more than like a I. Bruce or D. Driver ( W/O Drivers fearlessness ) .

 

thoughts ?

 

Better question would be...

 

Would Peyton Manning still be a future first ballot / HOF guy (He will end with possibly the greatest QB stats ever ) If he had the average WR Corps to throw to?

 

just kidding - maybe

 

 

I think he'd be upper echelon, but hard to tell without ever seeing him in that role. He had a solid year before Peyton came didn't he??

 

W/out Peyton

 

96' Rec 64 Yard 836 TD 8

97' Rec 73 Yard 866 TD 6

 

You could say the same thing for Rice, since he had Montana and Young passing to him all of those years.

 

It's really hard to disassociate the WR with the QB. There are only a handful of HoF wideouts that really excelled with crappy QB's.

 

Who is the best WR to play to not have a great/solid QB???

[kutulu 1,625]

He is not a big guy...I don't have a problem with not wanted to get "jacked up".

 

On the flip side...nobody gets two toes inbounds like Marvin does.

[RoadLizard 73]

Better question would be...

Who is the best WR to play to not have a great/solid QB???

 

Interesting that there really isn't any WR's that stand out that didnt at some point have a monster QB throwing them the ball. Plus, in most cases they were on good teams on top of that.

 

Guess were back to the old "Football is a TEAM sport"....

 

Its like the Chicken or the Egg argument. Was Rice that great or did Montana make hsi career? Was Montana / Manning that great or did their great O-line and WR's make them great?

 

Chicken...Egg....Chicken...Egg.....

[Jetdoc 20]

Who is the best WR to play to not have a great/solid QB???

 

Irving Fryar has to be near the top of that list. Tony Eason and Steve Grogan? Blech...

[IndyTom 0]

Seems like Harrison catches the pass and looks for the closest place to slide or go down - even in the playoffs the guy really never looked to gain YAC unless it was clear. It's like he sees defenders he curls up in fetal position and waits for the big bad defenders to go away.

 

One: Marvin isn't a big guy in the mold of CJ, TO, Housh, Plax, etc. Realistically, he can't take the hits that those guys can.

 

Secondly, Marvin (and the Colts) wants to be able to play in the NFL as long as possible. If that means sliding or running out of bounds in trade of playing at 100% in 100% of the games for 18 years, than it is worthwhile. I believe Marvin considers this more important than having street cred with the "look at me" WR peers in the NFL.

 

It's obviously paying off.

[beantownbrown 0]

Manning made Brandon Stokley a 1000 yard 10 TD receiver. The notion that Manning is only good because he has had superior talent around him is a joke. Until Reggie Wayne eventually was drafted and developed, Harrison was his only reliable WR and was double covered constantly. He made Marcus Pollard a Pro Bowl TE, what's he been since he left? Guys step into the Colts offense and produce because of Manning.

 

That said, Manning and Harrison are both great players. Just like Rice and Montana were. You can't take anything away from them because they played with each other. They are the #1 QB to WR duo of all time already, with more years ahead of them still. To act like only one is great is a joke. If that were the case, they wouldn't be going down in history together.

[Foghorn Leghorn 0]

Manning made Brandon Stokley a 1000 yard 10 TD receiver. The notion that Manning is only good because he has had superior talent around him is a joke. Until Reggie Wayne eventually was drafted and developed, Harrison was his only reliable WR and was double covered constantly. He made Marcus Pollard a Pro Bowl TE, what's he been since he left? Guys step into the Colts offense and produce because of Manning.

 

That said, Manning and Harrison are both great players. Just like Rice and Montana were. You can't take anything away from them because they played with each other. They are the #1 QB to WR duo of all time already, with more years ahead of them still. To act like only one is great is a joke. If that were the case, they wouldn't be going down in history together.

 

Nicely put. I think they've made each other that much better, just like Rice and Montana did (and later, Rice and Young).

[sjanson 0]

Seems like Harrison catches the pass and looks for the closest place to slide or go down - even in the playoffs the guy really never looked to gain YAC unless it was clear.

Which is exactly why he has played 170 games in the last 11 seasons and has only lost 7 fumbles. I dont know what the league average is in regards to fumbles lost per reception, but I'm fairly certain 7 lost fumbles in over 1000 receptions is pretty dang good.

 

And if you are 6-0, 180, soaking wet, five minutes after mom's thanksgiving dinner, wearing work boots, why would you purposely take on free safeties and middle linebackers if you didnt have to?

[pollardposse 0]

Which is exactly why he has played 170 games in the last 11 seasons and has only lost 7 fumbles. I dont know what the league average is in regards to fumbles lost per reception, but I'm fairly certain 7 lost fumbles in over 1000 receptions is pretty dang good.

 

And if you are 6-0, 180, soaking wet, five minutes after mom's thanksgiving dinner, wearing work boots, why would you purposely take on free safeties and middle linebackers if you didnt have to?

 

 

I agree. Any coach that expects his wide receivers to "fight" for extra yardage is a begging for an injured WR. Harrison may curl up in the fetal position after catching the ball, but while he's curling up, the officials are moving the chains. The guy is money.

[The Moz 69]

Nicely put. I think they've made each other that much better, just like Rice and Montana did (and later, Rice and Young).

 

ONly Montana already 2 rings before Rice was on the focking team ! Montana did alot more for Rice as well as Peyton to Marvin.

[Phurfur 70]

Yes

[RLLD 3,928]

As I recall, harrison got into Indy before Manning, didnt really hear much from him until Peyton arrived...

[kutulu 1,625]

As I recall, harrison got into Indy before Manning, didnt really hear much from him until Peyton arrived...

 

Then you weren't paying attention. As it was the year of the WR: Keyshawn Johnson; Terry Glenn; Eddie Kennison, Marvin Harrison; Eric Moulds. Not bad stats for a rook, either:

 

 

 

Year Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lg TD 
1996 Indianapolis Colts 16 15 64 836 13.1 41 8 

[RLLD 3,928]

Then you weren't paying attention. As it was the year of the WR: Keyshawn Johnson; Terry Glenn; Eddie Kennison, Marvin Harrison; Eric Moulds. Not bad stats for a rook, either:

Year Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lg TD 
1996 Indianapolis Colts 16 15 64 836 13.1 41 8 

 

Not sure I follow, can you clarify your assertion....

[kutulu 1,625]

Not sure I follow, can you clarify your assertion....

 

Basically, I called Harrison the best WR of the bunch at our fantasy draft back in 1996...now I feel like I can be an ass to whoever I want to be one to.

[RLLD 3,928]

Basically, I called Harrison the best WR of the bunch at our fantasy draft back in 1996...now I feel like I can be an ass to whoever I want to be one to.

 

I think everyone felt that Harrison was a pretty good WR, and a good number picked him up. That being said, just look at the stats, after Peyton's first year in the league MH exploded....all i am saying is that Marvin sans Peyton is not a HOF WR, he is Keyshawn Johnson

[sjanson 0]

all i am saying is that Marvin sans Peyton is not a HOF WR, he is Keyshawn Johnson

Not true. MH is not a "Throw me the damn ball" asshat like Meshawn.

[RLLD 3,928]

Not true. MH is not a "Throw me the damn ball" asshat like Meshawn.

 

Annnnd...you totally miss the point.....

[Jeremy 0]

I think it's just as much the other way around. What would Manning's stats look like without Harrison? Harrison made Manning as much as Manning made Harrison, IMO.

 

Don't you think it's amazing that arguably 2 of the top 5 QBs of all time happened to play on the same team one right after the other? First Montana, then Young? Do you think that common denominator named Jerry Rice had anything to do with that?

 

I'm not putting down, Manning, or Montana, or Young, but they owe a lot of their success to having some nice weapons around them.

[The Moz 69]

I think it's just as much the other way around. What would Manning's stats look like without Harrison? Harrison made Manning as much as Manning made Harrison, IMO.

 

Don't you think it's amazing that arguably 2 of the top 5 QBs of all time happened to play on the same team one right after the other? First Montana, then Young? Do you think that common denominator named Jerry Rice had anything to do with that?

 

I'm not putting down, Manning, or Montana, or Young, but they owe a lot of their success to having some nice weapons around them.

 

 

Montana woulda had 4 rings with or without Rice and likley still would be known as a top 5 QB to ever play football !

[Cuse9 129]

Not sure I follow, can you clarify your assertion....

 

He was simply saying that Marvin put up damn good numbers in his first two years. As with the history of wr's it's their third years (most of the time) when they break out. He put up two similar years that were pretty good before Peyton got there.

 

In this case I think Marvin was going to be an excellent NFL wr and Peyton was destined to be an excellent NFL qb. Regardless of who was throwing to Marvin or who was receiving for Manning. These two guys just click. It's their pre game routine, relentless work ethic together that have put them over the top. Wayne was an okay wr until he started to join the pre game routines with Peyton and Marvin.....then Wayne turned it on, also in his third year I believe.

 

Best wr in history with average/above average QB's is Cris Carter!!

Randall Cunningham, Jeff George, Daunte Culpepper, Brad Johnson, Warren Moon, Rich Gannon, Jim McMahon.

 

Best wr in history with unknown qb's is HOFer James Lofton:

David Whitehurst, Lynn Dickey, Randy Wright, Marc Wilson, Jay Shroeder

He did have Jim Kelly in Buff though! But I now see why Lofton made the HOF...with those QB's!

[Jeremy 0]

Montana woulda had 4 rings with or without Rice and likley still would be known as a top 5 QB to ever play football !

 

Perhaps. I have my doubts about the 4 superbowl rings, though. Rice is unquestionably the best WR to ever lace them up. The only thing that's arguable is if he's the best PLAYER to ever play the game of football. He was a pretty big part of 3 of those superbowl teams.

[JackARoot 2]

Yes

 

 

When you look at all of the highlights of Marvin's career, you will see alot of spectacular catches just like the one in the SB that was ruled incomplete but overruled on replay. Somebody else said, "Nobody else gets two toes down like Marvin." and that's why he belongs in the HOF. He's a class act, stays focused on the task, and prepares himself for the game. How many games has Marvin missed in his career?

 

At the end of the SB, watch the replay when Marvin's leg got twisted under him. It looked really nasty. Some guys would have blown-out their knee on that play, but Marvin's flexibility had him walking off the field. At his age, that kind of flexibility takes alot of work.

[Ras66not99 0]

I think everyone felt that Harrison was a pretty good WR, and a good number picked him up. That being said, just look at the stats, after Peyton's first year in the league MH exploded....all i am saying is that Marvin sans Peyton is not a HOF WR, he is Keyshawn Johnson

Not sure what you and Moz and the rest of the haters have against this guy of all people... but to say/think Peyton is the sole reason behind Harrison success is ridiculous.... They both feed off of each others talents and have both benefited greatly by growing together...

 

Then you weren't paying attention. As it was the year of the WR: Keyshawn Johnson; Terry Glenn; Eddie Kennison, Marvin Harrison; Eric Moulds. Not bad stats for a rook, either:

Year Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lg TD 
1996 Indianapolis Colts 16 15 64 836 13.1 41 8 

Next time you mention that draft class of Wr's make sure you don't leave out 2 of the 3 big dogs again... Joe Horn and Mr. TERRELL OWENS Not to mention Mushin and Amani

[kutulu 1,625]

 

Next time you mention that draft class of Wr's make sure you don't leave out 2 of the 3 big dogs again... Joe Horn and Mr. TERRELL OWENS Not to mention Mushin and Amani

 

Course, I was keeping it to the 1st round or else I would have mentioned Bryan Still and

Alex Van Dyke

[Raider 84 29]

Marvin makes Peyton great, not the other way around!