Why 15 Round serpentine drafts are unfair

[KSB2424 3,148]

I see odd number rounded snake drafts all the time. This irks me.

 

The snake draft is designed to create a 'fair' drafting positions for all teams involved. Since we cannot accuratley predict how a fantasy player will actually perform the snake 'mathematically' is the best we have to make it fair. When I say 'mathematically' it means for instance the first two rounds. First pick in a 12 teamer gets 1 and 24. Add those together and divide by two (number of rounds) and you get 12.5. Pick 6 and 19 go together. Add them up and divide by 2? Equals an average draft number of 12.5. Same with the turn. Pick 12 and 13.

 

However this only works if there are even rounds. On odd number round drafts; the last half of the draft order gets screwed. They lose the last turn. This lost of the last turn throws off the fairness of the serpentine.

 

I like fairness. Odd number round drafts make me mad.

[kutulu 1,656]

Why don't you stop your constant bellyaching.

[KSB2424 3,148]

Why don't you stop your constant bellyaching.

It's that time of the month. Leave me alone.

[surferskin 30]

Just use the cancel out theory while drafting and you'll be money.

[listen2me 23 1,820]

Just use the cancel out theory while drafting and you'll be money.

 

Nah....Double the points theory works better.

[dehaven123 31]

I see odd number rounded snake drafts all the time. This irks me.

 

The snake draft is designed to create a 'fair' drafting positions for all teams involved. Since we cannot accuratley predict how a fantasy player will actually perform the snake 'mathematically' is the best we have to make it fair. When I say 'mathematically' it means for instance the first two rounds. First pick in a 12 teamer gets 1 and 24. Add those together and divide by two (number of rounds) and you get 12.5. Pick 6 and 19 go together. Add them up and divide by 2? Equals an average draft number of 12.5. Same with the turn. Pick 12 and 13.

 

However this only works if there are even rounds. On odd number round drafts; the last half of the draft order gets screwed. They lose the last turn. This lost of the last turn throws off the fairness of the serpentine.

 

I like fairness. Odd number round drafts make me mad.

 

You raise a very good point that should not be minimized.

I had never thought of this b4.

I do not think it is being too critical to bring this up either.

Now I'm mad too.

[Ray_T 738]

I see odd number rounded snake drafts all the time. This irks me.

 

The snake draft is designed to create a 'fair' drafting positions for all teams involved. Since we cannot accuratley predict how a fantasy player will actually perform the snake 'mathematically' is the best we have to make it fair. When I say 'mathematically' it means for instance the first two rounds. First pick in a 12 teamer gets 1 and 24. Add those together and divide by two (number of rounds) and you get 12.5. Pick 6 and 19 go together. Add them up and divide by 2? Equals an average draft number of 12.5. Same with the turn. Pick 12 and 13.

 

However this only works if there are even rounds. On odd number round drafts; the last half of the draft order gets screwed. They lose the last turn. This lost of the last turn throws off the fairness of the serpentine.

 

I like fairness. Odd number round drafts make me mad.

 

you are making a fuss out of nothing.

 

by the time you get to the 15th round, the difference in talent between the beginning & the end of the round is so small it's not even worth making note of.

 

In fact, I would say that in some drafts I've seen better players drafted in round 15 than in round 12. In my opinion, once you get to this point the advantage you get by having that one extra round is not worth consideration.

[hand banana 0]

3rd round reversal FTW

[KSB2424 3,148]

3rd round reversal FTW

Even worse. Dumbest idea in the history of Fantasy Football. Turns an otherwise 'fair' drafting method into an abomination because people think they can accurately predict exact performance in the future. As if they have a crystal ball and know for a fact the first couple draft postions are better than the last couple postions in a snake.

 

If you look at the past few years ADP, versus how it ended up after the season, it blows this method out of the water. Bottom line is that we cannot predict the future. Thus the only 'fair' method is a even round serpintine.

[Melissa Stark 1]

How many great players are drafted in say rnd 15?

Most owners are either drafting a kicker or on a flyer/rookie in redrafts.

 

I see nothing wrong with odd # drafts, if it's a problem, Have all owners pick out of hat for draft position in that last rnd, works for us.

 

My league uses 17 player redraft

[KSB2424 3,148]

In my opinion

See this is the difference. In your OPINION you may not think it isn't a big deal. Which is fine. People are allowed to do whatever they want. However it is a fact that in order to complete the fairness of a snake draft you must end with an even numbered round. The math doesn't lie.

 

[remote controller 143]

I see odd number rounded snake drafts all the time. This irks me.

 

The snake draft is designed to create a 'fair' drafting positions for all teams involved. Since we cannot accuratley predict how a fantasy player will actually perform the snake 'mathematically' is the best we have to make it fair. When I say 'mathematically' it means for instance the first two rounds. First pick in a 12 teamer gets 1 and 24. Add those together and divide by two (number of rounds) and you get 12.5. Pick 6 and 19 go together. Add them up and divide by 2? Equals an average draft number of 12.5. Same with the turn. Pick 12 and 13.

 

However this only works if there are even rounds. On odd number round drafts; the last half of the draft order gets screwed. They lose the last turn. This lost of the last turn throws off the fairness of the serpentine.

 

I like fairness. Odd number round drafts make me mad.

Note to Mike: "We request one extra round in the June Mock!"

[nordwave 2]

On odd number round drafts; the last half of the draft order gets screwed.

 

Right. They should absolutely get first shot at drafting the Kicker of their choice.

[KSB2424 3,148]

Right. They should absolutely get first shot at drafting the Kicker/Defense/Sleeper of their choice.

So you agree.

 

You can't argue against math

[jdon 28]

who cares? are you the same jackass who bitches about seat assignments and clocks at poker tournaments?

jdon

[KSB2424 3,148]

who cares? are you the same jackass who bitches about seat assignments and clocks at poker tournaments?

jdon

Just pointing it out. It is a fairly obvious fact that some don't even realize. Thanks for posting.

 

ksb

[krizay 0]

Just pointing it out. It is a fairly obvious fact that some don't even realize. Thanks for posting.

 

ksb

 

 

Well technically speaking. The 16th round would be the WW. In which the last pick gets 1st WW priority. So if it was an even round draft. The unfair advantage would thus go in the other direction by giving the last team 1st priority.

[Ray_T 738]

who cares? are you the same jackass who bitches about seat assignments and clocks at poker tournaments?

jdon

I agree. who cares. at that late point in the draft it shouldnt matter.

 

it's just silly to make a big deal of this. However, if it is a big deal to you, then you can do it in your own league.

 

As for my league, I dont care enough to worry about it.

[Quickolas1 80]

obama will get to this eventually

 

give him some time to deal with the other stuff

[Ray_T 738]

obama will get to this eventually

 

give him some time to deal with the other stuff

LOL!

 

but even Obama knows there is no pleasing some people.

[Frank M 181]

Twelve people are the max if you want to have a fair serpentine draft.

[Dan 62]

So, are you offering to swap picks with me in the June Mock for the 15th round?

[KSB2424 3,148]

Twelve people are the max if you want to have a fair serpentine draft.

Care to elaborate?

[BunnysBastatrds 2,294]

Our league struggles every year on whether to have fifteen rounds or sixteen. The argument for fifteen rounds always wins. Limiting the number of rounds to fifteen ensures that there will be more waiver wire moves during of the year, meaning more money in the pot. We charge 7.00 per move, no trades (5 moves included in fee). Last year there were 120+ waiver wire transactions. Plus, with twelve teams, that's one hundred and ninety two players drafted, as opposed to two hundred and four, leaving twelve more free agents in the pool. The argument for sixteen rounds is, if a good player gets injured or suspended and is out a few weeks, but will come back healthy at some point in the season, it gives you wiggle room to bench him and drop a player you don't really need. I have never understood why some leagues have seventeen or eighteen rounds. The math doesn't add up when having that many rounds unless your league is trade heavy.

 

I will bring up your point of even numbered rounds at our next meeting. Thanks for the insight.

[Dan 62]

Our league struggles every year on whether to have fifteen rounds or sixteen. The argument for fifteen rounds always wins. Limiting the number of rounds to fifteen ensures that there will be more waiver wire moves during of the year, meaning more money in the pot. We charge 7.00 per move, no trades (5 moves included in fee). Last year there were 120+ waiver wire transactions. Plus, with twelve teams, that's one hundred and ninety two players drafted, as opposed to two hundred and four, leaving twelve more free agents in the pool. The argument for sixteen rounds is, if a good player gets injured or suspended and is out a few weeks, but will come back healthy at some point in the season, it gives you wiggle room to bench him and drop a player you don't really need. I have never understood why some leagues have seventeen or eighteen rounds. The math doesn't add up when having that many rounds unless your league is trade heavy.

 

I will bring up your point of even numbered rounds at our next meeting. Thanks for the insight.

 

 

How? I mean, seriously. I'm in the camp of "no big deal," because the only "league" I do it in is the June Mock/No Hassle League. If I were in a serious league, I don't get that argument. You're not talking about 15 versus 20 - a different argument, and I still would push for the higher, but in a different thread - you're talking about making the number of rounds even, to balance the math. For the sake of 12 extra players, you're unwilling to balance that out for the guy who drafts last? Are you kidding me?

 

I don't do money leagues, and don't gamble, but I have to think that if someone were in a competitive money league, he would be more insistent on the point. If my top competition was even with me, then the little things would be what could tip that scale. If everyone's picking their kicker in the last round - common thing - then the guy drafting 15th gets Jason Hanson instead of Mason Crosby. That's a significant difference if the two owners are "equal."

 

I'm just curious . . . where did 15 become the number that made the most sense? I honestly don't get it, yet that seems to be your implication. Please . . . help.

[jdon 28]

I'm just curious . . . where did 15 become the number that made the most sense? I honestly don't get it, yet that seems to be your implication. Please . . . help.

?????????????????????????????

 

15 = 9 starting positions

2 back up RBs

2 back up WRs

2 other spots

 

 

?????????????????????????????

 

just guessing really... me I like 18 players or more so as to seperate the true champs from the chumps who rely on the waiver wire to save them... but thats just me... and I would play 9 if someone challenged me.

jdon

[49ER MAN 0]

?????????????????????????????

 

15 = 9 starting positions

2 back up RBs

2 back up WRs

2 other spots

?????????????????????????????

 

just guessing really... me I like 18 players or more so as to seperate the true champs from the chumps who rely on the waiver wire to save them... but thats just me... and I would play 9 if someone challenged me.

jdon

 

We have 17 roster spots and no one in our league has had any objections about 15 roster spots. To each his/her own.

[The Sock 0]

I see odd number rounded snake drafts all the time. This irks me.

 

The snake draft is designed to create a 'fair' drafting positions for all teams involved. Since we cannot accuratley predict how a fantasy player will actually perform the snake 'mathematically' is the best we have to make it fair. When I say 'mathematically' it means for instance the first two rounds. First pick in a 12 teamer gets 1 and 24. Add those together and divide by two (number of rounds) and you get 12.5. Pick 6 and 19 go together. Add them up and divide by 2? Equals an average draft number of 12.5. Same with the turn. Pick 12 and 13.

 

However this only works if there are even rounds. On odd number round drafts; the last half of the draft order gets screwed. They lose the last turn. This lost of the last turn throws off the fairness of the serpentine.

 

I like fairness. Odd number round drafts make me mad.

 

 

15 players on a team means 15 rounds. If thats a given, there's no easy way to be more fair And given a 12 team league is there reallyu much difference between the pick 169 and 180????

[Dan 62]

?????????????????????????????

 

15 = 9 starting positions

2 back up RBs

2 back up WRs

2 other spots

?????????????????????????????

 

just guessing really... me I like 18 players or more so as to separate the true champs from the chumps who rely on the waiver wire to save them... but thats just me... and I would play 9 if someone challenged me.

jdon

 

. . . so, you really don't know, either.

 

And I agree with the more rounds. Our dynasty and the re-draft I'm in use 20 rounds. Believe it or not, there is still a waiver wire worth something.

[davidbostonisgood 2]

32 spots and Dynasty

 

..... it's the only way to go boyz

[DankNuggs 305]

Its diminimous because relative value shows diminshing returns as you get deeper in the draft.

 

 

The last round you are taking fliers on guys, and i sincerely doubt that top half of the last round is getting higher quality talent than the last half... maybe if you compare it to a single source (and use it incorrectly as a value bible), but in the persecptive of the individual owners I would doubt the difference is really anything substantial.

 

 

In theory you are correct, in practice i think it becomes a non issue.

[KSB2424 3,148]

The last round you are taking fliers on guys, and i sincerely doubt that top half of the last round is getting higher quality talent than the last half... maybe if you compare it to a single source (and use it incorrectly as a value bible), but in the persecptive of the individual owners I would doubt the difference is really anything substantial In theory you are correct, in practice i think it becomes a non issue.

This is the correct answer. However IMO it does make a difference (even if somewhat small). Enough to ensure roster/round numbers to always be an even number.

[Ray_T 738]

Its diminimous because relative value shows diminshing returns as you get deeper in the draft.

The last round you are taking fliers on guys, and i sincerely doubt that top half of the last round is getting higher quality talent than the last half... maybe if you compare it to a single source (and use it incorrectly as a value bible), but in the persecptive of the individual owners I would doubt the difference is really anything substantial.

In theory you are correct, in practice i think it becomes a non issue.

 

good post.

 

and true.

 

I cant think of too many drafts where the number of quality players selected in round 15 is much different than what you get in round 16 or 17.

 

If this were a 9 round draft I could see the point having some validity, but once you get much past round 12, we're talking about players who will only play if something goes seriously wrong with your team in terms of injuries or ineffective players (unless you get lucky and grab someone like Slaton like I did last year)