*** Official *** 2014 NBA draft thread

[JT 137]

As a Sixers fan I don't love the Embiid selection, but I can understand why you make it and the potential payoff. There's no bigs being touted anywhere close to him in next year's bunch, so if the medical team likes the deal, ok. Truth is, if he comes back just partially, there will still be a market for him. See Bynum, Andrew.

 

I like the Saric deal as they got great value. He was going Top 6-7 until he signed in Europe. Plus you get a pick back from Orlando.

 

Together? Not crazy about it. This notion that in 3 years they'll be ready is ok, except that you don't know if 3 of the guys you're counting on in 3 years can even play NBA ball. And you won't know on two of them for at least 2-3 years. It's a huge gamble, they still can't shoot the ball worth chit, no functional size and a young PG who doesn't seem confident in how the franchise values him. And by the time that 3 year window comes open? Time for a new deal. Hope they can keep him after being frustrated for another 2 years.

 

No interest in an annual 40 wins and just making/missing playoffs. But I think there were enough solid pieces in this draft that they could have gambled on Embiid and gotten a player to help now at 10, or exploited the massive interest in Embiid into multiple picks and no risk . Accumulate assets? Sure. But I think there were assets to develop in real NBA time and showcase as you develop whatever ends up being their master plan.

[cyclone24 1,912]

JT: Keep in mind they have another lottery pick next year if they dont make the playoffs.....if they make the playoffs...that pick goes to Boston.

 

Soooooo....kinda wonder if the tank is on already?

[KSB2424 3,148]

Hornets are one of the teams I'm cheering for now that they are back to the proper name. Always used to be one of my fav's back in the day.

 

Was really hoping they were keeping Napier even with pg not being a need... they could have used him as a great bench scorer

 

Yeah, I didn't mind the pick of Napier. But it'd have been hard to play both Napier and Kemba in the same backcourt. They'd be fine on offense, but they wouldn't be able to guard the other teams guards as both are under 6'3. It just wasn't ideal, even though I like Napier as a player. I think they got the guy they targeted (Hairston) who fills a need for wing scoring at 26 and got a couple 2nd rounders from Miami in the process. They got their guy anyway so anything extra was....extra.

 

Charlotte is in a tizzy right now. The city and the fan loved that Bob Johnson brought another franchise to the city after Mr.Shinn bolted to New Orleans, but they hated the name, hated the colors, hated how the owner ran things and "The Bobcats" just never resonated with the city. Things are now right here, The Queen City has its Hornets back. The coach is awesome, the players are young and talented, the new uniforms are focking sick too (yes that matters to casual fans buying merchandise). Lots to be excited about.

[JT 137]

JT: Keep in mind they have another lottery pick next year if they dont make the playoffs.....if they make the playoffs...that pick goes to Boston.

 

Soooooo....kinda wonder if the tank is on already?

 

Could well be, and I'm not a fan of the startegy. I can't recall a team tanking multiple years and turning it into gold.

 

The draft is such an annual crapshoot that worrying about a lottery pick in a class that's not projected as very strong, as opposed to utilizing two Top 10s in a draft that's being touted as the best in years, doesn't seem sound to me.

 

Let Boston have it. They'll be bailing out of the Marcus Smart pick for a while imo.

[cbfalcon 825]

I like what the Sixers are doing. They recognize that you'll never get anywhere in the association by loading up on solid starters and solid role players. It's a superstar league. Meaning that with very very few exceptions, you aren't winning a title without a superstar. And if you don't have a superstar, you had better have 2-4 top 30 type players.

 

So instead of making safer moves that will get them closer to the middle of the pack now, they are playing the long game. In these last 2 drafts, they loaded up with upside more than any other team in the association by far. Had everyone been healthy or committed to the USA... Nerlins Noel goes #1 overall last year. Embid goes #1 overall this year. Saric goes in the 5-8 range. And the guy that didn't steal, MCW, manages to win Rookie of the Year....Hell, I even approve of taking the chance on Bynum. Keep taking shots.

 

On defense, Noel and Embid can work together. I think Noel can guard 4's. They'll be sick on defense in fact....Offensively I don't see Noel as a 4, but we will see. If these guys all pan out, they only thing they are missing is a scorer.

 

And it's Philly. Sure, it's a suckhole. But it's a top 5 iconic team with a hip past. Dr J, Barkley, Iverson.... Those things help. Meaning it's not necessarily as if this is Milwaukee loading up with potential that is 100% leaving the first chance it gets. They could build something and last.

[cyclone24 1,912]

 

Could well be, and I'm not a fan of the startegy. I can't recall a team tanking multiple years and turning it into gold.

 

The draft is such an annual crapshoot that worrying about a lottery pick in a class that's not projected as very strong, as opposed to utilizing two Top 10s in a draft that's being touted as the best in years, doesn't seem sound to me.

 

Let Boston have it. They'll be bailing out of the Marcus Smart pick for a while imo.

 

 

Agreed.....considering Deandre Kane was a better guard in his own league.....not a chance id want Smart. Rumor is they play Rondo and Smart until the trade deadline next year and then trade Rondo.

[DankNuggs 305]

76ers are so good at tanking they don't want to stop for awhile

[MDC 7,105]

Soooooo.....they draft two guys that probably wont play at all this year as lottery picks. How "Philly" of them.

What would've been really Sixers of them is to draft something like Randle or Vonleh at 3 and McDermott at 10, then spend the next 10 years as a 6-8 seed in the East.

 

I don't know that I love the draft last night, mostly because I'm not as bullish on Embiid as some. I do know that you and White Wonder have lost the plot if you're complaining that they're going to win 20-25 games next year instead of potentially 30 by taking higher upside players who won't be available this season.

[KSB2424 3,148]

Regarding the Sixers?

 

I like the Embiid pick. You're not winning next year so the gamble on his health vs. upside was worth taking at 3. Love the roll of the dice there as it makes perfect sense.

 

Don't like the Saric pick though. I guess I "understand" it, but he isn't coming for two years at minimum, plus he isn't even guranteed to come AT ALL. He can re up abroad at anytime for more year....the Sixers have to actually now start recruiting him and stay on top of it to even sell Saric the idea of ever coming to Philly. Supposedly the guy is pretty good, but he's not projected as a superstar so all that seems to risky for just a "good" player to me.

 

Why not draft McDermott at 10? Or another quality young quality asset at 10? It's one thing to plan for the future, its another to lose hope in the city and dwell in obscurity.

[NewbieJr 541]

What would've been really Sixers of them is to draft something like Randle or Vonleh at 3 and McDermott at 10, then spend the next 10 years as a 6-8 seed in the East.

 

I don't know that I love the draft last night, mostly because I'm not as bullish on Embiid as some. I do know that you and White Wonder have lost the plot if you're complaining that they're going to win 20-25 games next year instead of potentially 30 by taking higher upside players who won't be available this season.

That's the key here. The Sixers are rolling the dice to become great. They're not looking to become a team that just misses the playoffs next year, makes it in with 38 wins and gets swept in 2016, makes it in at .500 in 2017 and MAYBE wins one playoff series, and then lose their best players because they want to play on a team that will win a ring. They are going for broke. I like the strategy.

 

When I saw Vonley keep falling and falling, my mouth was watering. One more slot and the Sixers would have had him and everyone would be talking about how the Sixers had the best draft of all the teams. After Wiggins and Parker went, there were no sure things at #3. And after Vonley went, there was nothing great at #10. They were one pick away for both of their early picks from this being a totally different draft.

[cyclone24 1,912]

That's the key here. The Sixers are rolling the dice to become great. They're not looking to become a team that just misses the playoffs next year, makes it in with 38 wins and gets swept in 2016, makes it in at .500 in 2017 and MAYBE wins one playoff series, and then lose their best players because they want to play on a team that will win a ring. They are going for broke. I like the strategy.

 

When I saw Vonley keep falling and falling, my mouth was watering. One more slot and the Sixers would have had him and everyone would be talking about how the Sixers had the best draft of all the teams. After Wiggins and Parker went, there were no sure things at #3. And after Vonley went, there was nothing great at #10. They were one pick away for both of their early picks from this being a totally different draft.

 

 

Well...i mean sorta. By the time these guys all get good, healthy, etc.....their rookie deals will be done. Odds they stay together when...if they actually perform are in line for big deals? Not very good. And thats IF they all pan out.

[KSB2424 3,148]

BTW, because teams like to do what the Sixers did in the second round to "stash" Euro guys there are some really high quality players not even drafted who will play next season in the league.

 

CJ Fair

Patrick Young

James Michael McAdoo

Jabari Brown

Bryce Cotten

Andre Dawkins

 

I look for the Heat to invite Patrick Young and McAdoo to camp. Young is a beast who could help at Center in a "Birdman" type role at least as a back up big off the bench. For those that watched the NCAA tournament he's that chiseled Center from Florida who looks like a man child. The Heat don't need scoring they need Defense and rebounding in the post. Same can be said for McAdoo who is a crazy athlete but just cant shoot. Perfect role players.

 

Those guys listed above are really good ball players...who can be had for the league minimum.

[Mike Honcho 5,072]

I'm not going to over-react to the draft, but the Bucks probably will be playing for the Eastern Conference title, if not the NBA championship next year.

[KSB2424 3,148]

Also, I can't believe that Aaron Gordon was taken ahead of Julius Randle. It blows my mind and shows the reason why the Kings are the Kings and the Lakers are the Lakers. Aaron Gordon can't shoot. He's a good athlete but the NBA is littered with those. Randle is a man, who knows how to score. Blew my mind when Gordon was picked over Randle.

 

I thought the Celtics had a tremendous draft too. Smart and Rondo can play together as both defend and Smart can guard SG's bigger than he is as he's a bull. And James Young fell in their lap. A+

[JT 137]

 

 

Agreed.....considering Deandre Kane was a better guard in his own league.....not a chance id want Smart. Rumor is they play Rondo and Smart until the trade deadline next year and then trade Rondo.

 

If they play Smart and Rondo together they'll score 85 pts a game. They'll defend the backcourt, but they'll be so inept ofensively as to be painful.

 

Smart made a living bullying smaller guards in the low post and straight-line driving to the hoop. He won't be able to do those things. But next to Rondo, his shot will look like an instructional video.

[NewbieJr 541]

Also, I can't believe that Aaron Gordon was taken ahead of Julius Randle. It blows my mind and shows the reason why the Kings are the Kings and the Lakers are the Lakers. Aaron Gordon can't shoot. He's a good athlete but the NBA is littered with those. Randle is a man, who knows how to score. Blew my mind when Gordon was picked over Randle.

 

I thought the Celtics had a tremendous draft too. Smart and Rondo can play together as both defend and Smart can guard SG's bigger than he is as he's a bull. And James Young fell in their lap. A+

I worry about Smart's intelligence/personality. Especially in Boston. They are a very 'white' town and he is not the stereotypical athlete that Celtic fans gravitate to. I do like him as a player though. Maybe he matures.

[JT 137]

Also, I can't believe that Aaron Gordon was taken ahead of Julius Randle. It blows my mind and shows the reason why the Kings are the Kings and the Lakers are the Lakers. Aaron Gordon can't shoot. He's a good athlete but the NBA is littered with those. Randle is a man, who knows how to score. Blew my mind when Gordon was picked over Randle.

 

 

Randle has a chance to be Karl Malone. Rap on him out of college was he couldn't shoot from outside and just overpowered people around the rim with his size, strength and athleticism. He added a 15 footer and the whole story changed. I've seen enough of Randle to believe that he can develop that shot. He will be a beast.

 

Feel the same about Gordon. Guess he blew everyone away with his combine performance. It's exciting to watch him jump. To watch him shoot FT as well.

[Mungwater 593]

I'm not going to over-react to the draft, but the Bucks probably will be playing for the Eastern Conference fifth seed

Seems more accurate

[WhiteWonder 2,673]

I like what the Sixers are doing. They recognize that you'll never get anywhere in the association by loading up on solid starters and solid role players. It's a superstar league. Meaning that with very very few exceptions, you aren't winning a title without a superstar. And if you don't have a superstar, you had better have 2-4 top 30 type players.

 

So instead of making safer moves that will get them closer to the middle of the pack now, they are playing the long game. In these last 2 drafts, they loaded up with upside more than any other team in the association by far. Had everyone been healthy or committed to the USA... Nerlins Noel goes #1 overall last year. Embid goes #1 overall this year. Saric goes in the 5-8 range. And the guy that didn't steal, MCW, manages to win Rookie of the Year....Hell, I even approve of taking the chance on Bynum. Keep taking shots.

 

On defense, Noel and Embid can work together. I think Noel can guard 4's. They'll be sick on defense in fact....Offensively I don't see Noel as a 4, but we will see. If these guys all pan out, they only thing they are missing is a scorer.

 

And it's Philly. Sure, it's a suckhole. But it's a top 5 iconic team with a hip past. Dr J, Barkley, Iverson.... Those things help. Meaning it's not necessarily as if this is Milwaukee loading up with potential that is 100% leaving the first chance it gets. They could build something and last.

The issue I have is that I agree with what you're saying... teams need superstars.

 

From there, I disagree. The sixers have money. The only way to attract superstars is to shown them a reason to come. A talented roster that can be put around them. MCW will be a sophomore, he fits that description. As does Thad Young. Instead of drafting a pair of players who won't have an impact for 3 years, you could have added another pair of really good young players, let them grow this season and your team looks really attractive for the 2015 free agent class. Drafting players who can play right now doesn't have to be about committing to bend mediocre. It's about making Philly an attractive destination that people mention when talking about the biggest available names.

 

You probably could have even still drafted embiid. His name alone could make Philly attractive even before he hits the court on promise alone. 2 future players was just a mistake, imo.

 

So now, you're basically hoping that you've drafted a guy or pair of guys who will be superstars themselves but is that happening in the next 3-4 years? All I've seen from Philly says those guys probably won't even be on the roster anymore by then....

[JT 137]

BTW, because teams like to do what the Sixers did in the second round to "stash" Euro guys there are some really high quality players not even drafted who will play next season in the league.

 

CJ Fair

Patrick Young

James Michael McAdoo

Jabari Brown

Bryce Cotten

Andre Dawkins

 

I look for the Heat to invite Patrick Young and McAdoo to camp. Young is a beast who could help at Center in a "Birdman" type role at least as a back up big off the bench. For those that watched the NCAA tournament he's that chiseled Center from Florida who looks like a man child. The Heat don't need scoring they need Defense and rebounding in the post. Same can be said for McAdoo who is a crazy athlete but just cant shoot. Perfect role players.

 

Those guys listed above are really good ball players...who can be had for the league minimum.

 

I don't see McAdoo as having any value to a veteran team trying to win titles. He doesn't really have a position, is an ok defender and lacks much of an offensive game. An athlete with a recognizable name. As for Fair, it always kind of amazed me that he was considered a college "star". But sometimes those guys whose results outweigh their skill set manage to make it at the next level.

 

Young I could see In Miami. He's by no means the answer: has basically no offensive game at all and he's reportedly about 6' 9 1/2". But he is an excellent P&R defender and will battle every possession. He'd be an immense upgrade over Haslem at that end of the floor.

[JT 137]

As a Sixers fan who has expressed dismay at their approach, I should commend them on the selection of Russ Smith/L'ville late. He's awfully slight but awfully tough, and can actually put the ball in the basket!!!

 

He's the kind of guy who is a competitor with a chip on his shoulder. Can see him being around the league for a while.

[JT 137]

The issue I have is that I agree with what you're saying... teams need superstars.

 

From there, I disagree. The sixers have money. The only way to attract superstars is to shown them a reason to come. A talented roster that can be put around them.

 

Agreed. Over the last decade of drafts, how many "superstars", the kind of guy who can be the unquestioned #1 and lead a team to true contender level, have there been?

 

The odds that two or three picks accumulated over a couple years (two of whom essentially play the same position) are going to yield even one "superstar" player is pretty slim.

 

Like you, I think this draft could have been used to add multiple pieces who can play and/or would be attractive assets. Go ahead, take Embiid, but get a player at #10. In a couple years you either have a solid young up-and-comer that might attract a FA, or you've found your own star and go from there.

[MDC 7,105]

The issue I have is that I agree with what you're saying... teams need superstars.

 

From there, I disagree. The sixers have money. The only way to attract superstars is to shown them a reason to come. A talented roster that can be put around them. MCW will be a sophomore, he fits that description. As does Thad Young. Instead of drafting a pair of players who won't have an impact for 3 years, you could have added another pair of really good young players, let them grow this season and your team looks really attractive for the 2015 free agent class. Drafting players who can play right now doesn't have to be about committing to bend mediocre. It's about making Philly an attractive destination that people mention when talking about the biggest available names.

 

You probably could have even still drafted embiid. His name alone could make Philly attractive even before he hits the court on promise alone. 2 future players was just a mistake, imo.

 

So now, you're basically hoping that you've drafted a guy or pair of guys who will be superstars themselves but is that happening in the next 3-4 years? All I've seen from Philly says those guys probably won't even be on the roster anymore by then....

 

So let me get this straight:

 

Your argument is not that Embiid and Saric weren't the best players available at 3 and 10. Your argument is that the Sixers should have drafted less talented players who are available immediately, in order to show marginal improvement to entice free agents to play here next year. Is that right?

 

The most enticing thing about Philadelphia to marquee free agents is going to be the fact that the team can sign two players to a max contract. If I'm Sam Hinkie I am absolutely kicking the tires on LeBron and telling him if he wants to play in Philly, we'll sign him to a max deal and either trade Embiid plus future picks for Kevin Love or sign Carmelo Anthony. I tell him that MCW, Noel and Young are already all the complementary players they need and we've got others waiting in the wings for beyond this season. And I tell him the Sixers will have the best practice facility in the NBA no later than the 2016 season.

 

Now THAT is a sales pitch. Not "How about playing with Randle and McDermott? They won 30 games last year!"

 

Finally, the Sixers dealt Jrue Holiday for Noel, Saric, and 1st and 2nd rounders. That was brilliant. If it were up to you they'd still be winning 35 games with Jrue at the helm and drafting "NBA ready" guys like McDermott to fill out their roster and maybe win 45 next year. That is really the only important piece this team has shed and you act like trading their best player is an annual right of passage or something.

 

You don't know a thing, which is fine, but at least stick to a team you understand even a little.

[DankNuggs 305]

Lebron to the 6ers...LOL

 

6ers are just the minor leagues for these guys to lock down rookie deals, get healthy, refine their games, then move on to a bigger market and better team...

 

These guys are leaving before the team could ever have a chance to 'peak'

[Mungwater 593]

No way in hell leBron signs with Philadelphia, better chance ill be on their roster than he will.

[DankNuggs 305]

Its funny the 'deepest draft in X years' really doesn't seem that deep the day after...

[MDC 7,105]

No way in hell leBron signs with Philadelphia, better chance ill be on their roster than he will.

Do I think it's going to happen? No.

 

Do I think the fact that the Sixers can absorb 2 max contracts is going to be a better selling point in 2015/2016 than winning 35 games vs 25 games this year? Hell yeah.

[WhiteWonder 2,673]

 

So let me get this straight:

 

Your argument is not that Embiid and Saric weren't the best players available at 3 and 10. Your argument is that the Sixers should have drafted less talented players who are available immediately, in order to show marginal improvement to entice free agents to play here next year. Is that right?

 

The most enticing thing about Philadelphia to marquee free agents is going to be the fact that the team can sign two players to a max contract. If I'm Sam Hinkie I am absolutely kicking the tires on LeBron and telling him if he wants to play in Philly, we'll sign him to a max deal and either trade Embiid plus future picks for Kevin Love or sign Carmelo Anthony. I tell him that MCW, Noel and Young are already all the complementary players they need and we've got others waiting in the wings for beyond this season. And I tell him the Sixers will have the best practice facility in the NBA no later than the 2016 season.

 

Now THAT is a sales pitch. Not "How about playing with Randle and McDermott? They won 30 games last year!"

 

Finally, the Sixers dealt Jrue Holiday for Noel, Saric, and 1st and 2nd rounders. That was brilliant. If it were up to you they'd still be winning 35 games with Jrue at the helm and drafting "NBA ready" guys like McDermott to fill out their roster and maybe win 45 next year. That is really the only important piece this team has shed and you act like trading their best player is an annual right of passage or something.

 

You don't know a thing, which is fine, but at least stick to a team you understand even a little.

You and I have no idea who the best players available will turn out to be. Embiid is a special case because of the injury. I already said one "future" pick was fine.

 

Also no I don't thino saric is some can't pass up player there. I can see the argument for him but when u factor in the situation there are other players who would have been better fits in my own opinion.

[MDC 7,105]

You and I have no idea who the best players available will turn out to be. Embiid is a special case because of the injury. I already said one "future" pick was fine.

 

Also no I don't thino saric is some can't pass up player there. I can see the argument for him but when u factor in the situation there are other players who would have been better fits in my own opinion.

You're making 2 different arguments:

 

1. Embiid and Saric were not the overall best players the Sixers could have drafted.

 

2. The Sixers should have drafted other players because Embiid / Saric won't play this year.

 

I don't know the answer to 1 either so I can't really argue if you just don't think they're the best prospects. I disagree pretty strongly with 2 though because the Sixers are at the beginning if what was always a 3-4 year rebuilding process and they have the luxury of taking the long view here.

 

We will see how it all turns out. As a fan I hoped to see some immediate help but I can't really can't fault the team for drafting players they feel will yield the greatest benefit down the line.

 

One thing you've got to say about Hinkie, man he has balls.

[WhiteWonder 2,673]

You're making 2 different arguments:

 

1. Embiid and Saric were not the overall best players the Sixers could have drafted.

 

2. The Sixers should have drafted other players because Embiid / Saric won't play this year.

 

 

I'm sorry but when did I say that Embiid and Saric were not the overall best players available skill wise? That has never been part of my argument. Personally I think saric is overrated but it has nothing to do with my argument.

 

If you're saying my argument was that they were not the best picks for THIS team, then points 1 and 2 above are the same exact thing.

 

My entire argument is and has been that this team has money to spend and rather than take two promising players who can get in there right away, develop and make this team attractive for 2015 free agents... they took a pair of promising players who won't take the court until 2015-2016 at the earliest. Then they need time to develop in the NBA game.

 

And they way the sixers recycle young talent, it'd going to be a never ending cycle

[MDC 7,105]

I'm sorry but when did I say that Embiid and Saric were not the overall best players available skill wise? That has never been part of my argument. Personally I think saric is overrated but it has nothing to do with my argument.

 

If you're saying my argument was that they were not the best picks for THIS team, then points 1 and 2 above are the same exact thing.

 

My entire argument is and has been that this team has money to spend and rather than take two promising players who can get in there right away, develop and make this team attractive for 2015 free agents... they took a pair of promising players who won't take the court until 2015-2016 at the earliest. Then they need time to develop in the NBA game.

 

And they way the sixers recycle young talent, it'd going to be a never ending cycle

From what I can tell your argument was that the Sixers should've taken players who could contribute right away. What I'm saying is that winning 35 games next year with say Randle / McDermott just for the sake of fielding their 1st round picks is meaningless. The team would still be bad and in the GM's evaluation they drafted higher upside at 3 / 10.

 

You keep implying the team recycles young talent based on the Jrue trade. They ended up getting Noel, Saric and 1st and 2nd round picks out if Jrue. That seems like a major coup to me.

 

If you're talking about the ET or Hawes deal we have different definitions of "talent."

 

I can deal with disagreement but your arguments are all over the map and don't make a lot of sense beyond feeling like instant gratification is the goal here.

[WhiteWonder 2,673]

From what I can tell your argument was that the Sixers should've taken players who could contribute right away. What I'm saying is that winning 35 games next year with say Randle / McDermott just for the sake of fielding their 1st round picks is meaningless. The team would still be bad and in the GM's evaluation they drafted higher upside at 3 / 10.

 

You keep implying the team recycles young talent based on the Jrue trade. They ended up getting Noel, Saric and 1st and 2nd round picks out if Jrue. That seems like a major coup to me.

 

If you're talking about the ET or Hawes deal we have different definitions of "talent."

 

I can deal with disagreement but your arguments are all over the map and don't make a lot of sense beyond feeling like instant gratification is the goal here.

 

you keep mentioning randle and mcdermott. you're focusing too much on specific names rather than the actual concept I am laying out there. I wouldn't have suggest Mcdermott because i believe his upside is capped. He is a perfect fit for a team like the Bulls, not a team like the Sixers.

 

you're also missing the point on the concept. It's not about contributing wins right away because everyone will say, and rightfully so, that it could put this team in a perpetual fight for the 7 or 8 seed which is pointless. what it IS about is having talented rookies who can delelop and mature right away so that the core of this team looks attractive to top level free agents. Im not sure how many times I have to repeat that. Philly has $ to spend but needs to make itself attractive. You don't accomplish this by drafting 2 lottery picks who won't see an NBA court until years down the road. Contending teams have that luxury, not bottom dwellers.

 

I've already said, they could afford to make the Embiid pick and hope he is ready for 2015-2016. His name and the aura around it can be attractive. When a big name free agent sees MCW, ______, Thad Young, Noel, Embiid. Hmm.. looks pretty nice. Saric might not even be here next year. He offers little. If they had taken a guy who can get his feet wet right away, see how you feel about him after year 1, that even opens up the idea of trading away Thad Young and bringing in 2 "max players". Now all of a sudden, you're a top team in the East.

 

 

in a nut shell....

1. Superstars win

2. you have to attract superstars

3. Philly doesn't seem to be making the right moves to do this.

 

so is the road they are taking to hope that they hit on superstars in Noel, Embiid and Saric? it could be 2017 before we know. Philly isn't really a small market that can afford to wait that long are they? Considering the Sixers seem to ship promising young talent after 2 years, will we ever find out?

[WhiteWonder 2,673]

I can deal with disagreement but your arguments are all over the map and don't make a lot of sense beyond feeling like instant gratification is the goal here.

 

how are my arguments "all over the map"? I've only made one argument. I think you are fabricating this idea that I wanted them to draft guys who could play right now for the sake of winning 35 games..... as well as fabricating the idea that I ever said Embiid and Saric were not the 'best talent on the board'.

 

its all about when these guys will be ready. If you, as a sixers fan, are confident that these guys will all hit and you want to wait 3+ years in the terrible east, then you should be more than thrilled with their moves.

 

I simply think they would have been better served to get their core playing together NOW and get this team in position to attract some top level stars next summer. end of story.

[WhiteWonder 2,673]

2009 - jrue holiday - traded after 4 seasons

2010 - Evan Turner - had weaknesses but was turning the corner and traded midway through 4th season

2011 - nikola vucevic - traded midway through 2012 season for andrew bynum

 

those are really the guys i meant. wasn't thinking about hawes

[MDC 7,105]

 

 

in a nut shell....

1. Superstars win

2. you have to attract superstars

3. Philly doesn't seem to be making the right moves to do this.

 

1. Agreed

2. Yes

3. Here's where I think you're not making sense.

 

If the Sixers think Embiid and Saric have the highest ceilings where they were picking, it would be silly to draft other players or the sake of making Philly a more attractive FA destination next year, for a few reasons:

 

1. This is a 3-4 year rebuild - the team was clear about that from the beginning.

2. The Sixers new practice facility won't be ready for 2 years anyway. The current one is a huge obstacle to attracting talent.

3. The card the Sixers have to play in attracting a FA is that they have the lowest payroll in the league and could afford to sign 2 of them.

 

Not many teams could sign both LeBron and Melo, for example. It won't happen this year, but the Sixers are in a position where they're flush with cap space and draft picks. A few years down the road they can make the kind of FA push you're talking about, right now they can't.

[WhiteWonder 2,673]

let me get a little GF with 4 posts in a row.

 

 

to focus on another team for a second, i LOVE what the Knicks are doing. the Steve Kerr situation was comical but everything since then has been stellar.

 

Made the big play for Big Chief Triangle, so you have to let him get a coach who will more or less be a puppet. Fisher was the perfect guy. Well known name (NY fans didnt want some stale focking name like Kurt Rambis) with no coaching experience but a leader on the court. Phil will be coaching through him.

 

The trade they made was amazing. dump the turrible Raymond Felton, dump Tyson Chandler who checked out last year.... add a PG who is really underrated in terms of shooting the 3, scoring and passing.... doesn't play D but neither did Felton. Get 2 picks as well and land Early and Antetokoumpo.

 

seems like a real good start to getting out of the dire situation this team was in.

 

I think Anthony would be a good fit in Phils system but I don't think they need him. When some more $$ falls off the books, a big name will want to come play for Phil in NY in 2015/2016

[MDC 7,105]

2009 - jrue holiday - traded after 4 seasons

2010 - Evan Turner - had weaknesses but was turning the corner and traded midway through 4th season

2011 - nikola vucevic - traded midway through 2012 season for andrew bynum

 

those are really the guys i meant. wasn't thinking about hawes

Vuce was the last GM / regime, and they made that deal thinking they were going to land the kind of star you've been talking about. Obviously they underestimates Bynum's injuries and laziness but the strategy was exactly what you're talking about; it just didn't work out. I should also point out that the trade that got them Saric also brought in a first rounder the Sixers had dealt to Orlando as part of the Bynum deal.

 

ET couldn't get meaningful minutes off the Pacers bench and got punched out by Lance Stephenson. You are maybe the only NBA fan still calling him a promising player. He sucks.

 

Hinkie flipped Jrue for Noel, Saric and a 1st and 2nd round pick. I'd call that at least $1.50 on the dollar.

[WhiteWonder 2,673]

1. Agreed

2. Yes

3. Here's where I think you're not making sense.

 

If the Sixers think Embiid and Saric have the highest ceilings where they were picking, it would be silly to draft other players or the sake of making Philly a more attractive FA destination next year, for a few reasons:

 

1. This is a 3-4 year rebuild - the team was clear about that from the beginning.

2. The Sixers new practice facility won't be ready for 2 years anyway. The current one is a huge obstacle to attracting talent.

3. The card the Sixers have to play in attracting a FA is that they have the lowest payroll in the league and could afford to sign 2 of them.

 

Not many teams could sign both LeBron and Melo, for example. It won't happen this year, but the Sixers are in a position where they're flush with cap space and draft picks. A few years down the road they can make the kind of FA push you're talking about, right now they can't.

 

this is the best counter you have had thus far and i think you finally get what my point was. im not asking them to win 35 games for the sake of winning a few games.

 

Regarding 1. - obviously we will have to agree to disagree. I think it could have been a 2-3 year rebuild which will now be a 4-5 year rebuild. Thats where the whole "drafting lottery picks who can step on the court NOW" argument comes into play. If the 'core' guys you want to have built around those free agents can get on the court ASAP and improve, its speeds up the process. Instead they have to wait a full year and hope Embiid is fully himself again and honestly Saric might be 2 years from playing in the US.

 

So yes, I think they could have made 2 different choices or at least 1 different choice and sped up the process. Unless you can really convince me that all the other options on the board were not good and Embiid and Saric will be sure fire stars.

 

Regarding 2. - the new facility being 2 years away, you could pitch that to free agents next summer and say in 2016/17 we will also have a brand new, state of the art facility.

 

Regarding 3. - Its not really enough anymore just to be able to afford 2 superstars. You have to show them the supporting cast can win. Look at whats going on around the league. Lebron wants to see what Miami is going to put in place. Wade opted out and Bosh will probably opt out with the idea of taking less to allow Miami to improve and entice Lebron to stay.... He has seen that 3 stars with inferior supporting talent can be beat. Look at Melo. He didn't have to opt out. He could have stayed with the Knicks knowing that in 2 years they can afford to go Star hunting.... but he wants to win now so he is looking at his options.

[WhiteWonder 2,673]

Vuce was the last GM / regime, and they made that deal thinking they were going to land the kind of star you've been talking about. Obviously they underestimates Bynum's injuries and laziness but the strategy was exactly what you're talking about; it just didn't work out. I should also point out that the trade that got them Saric also brought in a first rounder the Sixers had dealt to Orlando as part of the Bynum deal.

 

ET couldn't get meaningful minutes off the Pacers bench and got punched out by Lance Stephenson. You are maybe the only NBA fan still calling him a promising player. He sucks.

 

Hinkie flipped Jrue for Noel, Saric and a 1st and 2nd round pick. I'd call that at least $1.50 on the dollar.

 

ok look, im not saying Turner is a star. But you can't deny he was showing some really nice improvement in Philly this season. Im not shocked he struggled in Indy. No one there wanted him, he was traded for a fan favorite and a guy teammates really liked. He wasn't going to get starters minutes and we saw the chemistry on that team turned completely to shiit and Stevenson was a big part of the problem.

 

Regarding the jrue trade, how can you call it 1.50 on the dollar when you traded away an established 24 year old point guard, getting better each season, coming off his first all star game and averaging 17points 7 assists for a package that has currently played 0 games in the NBA and you have roughly no idea what you're getting?? I hope Noel is as good as you think he is, I hope Saric only spends 1 year overseas and I hope you hit on the future 1st but a haul like that seems like something you get happy about when you give away a 30 year old veteran before he declines rather than an up and coming star.

[MDC 7,105]

We're probably not too far apart here. Just saying:

 

1. As a fan of the team I am frustrated that I won't get to see either first rounder next year. But I really do think Hinkie picked these guy because they have the potential to be the best players available. If it weren't for injury concerns and the fact tht he will be overseas for a year or two, Embiid and Saric could have gone 1 and 6-7, so getting them 3 / 12 while adding picks was a big risk but it could also be a major coup.

 

2. I don't see any 2 players who were available to te Sixers where they picked who would have made the Sixers any better than a 30 or so win team, so passing on higher rated players to make this team marginally more attractive for FAs would've been silly IMO. I'm not convinced they drafted the right players but not because I'm worried about who we can lure next offseason.

 

I don't know who the name FAs are next offseason but I hope what they know about MCW and Noel plus the potential of Embiid and chance to join with another star FA will be enough of a lure.

 

The team Hinkie came from brought in Harden, Lin and Howard by acquiring assets, flexibility and cap space. You're right about stars being the key and I think he gets that, just on a slower timetable than some fans would like. We will see I guess.