Bust that you will not draft no matter what.

[Matt Mueller 146]

Are we still talking about Chris Godwin?!

BOOM

[Frozenbeernuts 1,883]

6 hours ago, Matt Mueller said:

Are we still talking about Chris Godwin?!

BOOM

Happy for you Mulls! You own him in a lot of spots

[bonkbonk 5]

Mulls got lucky

[LoOnAtIk 75]

It’s only week 2 I wouldn’t jump to conclusions just yet. Everyone’s reasoning on here for liking Godwin (Especially Tbay) was that Winston will improve under Arians and that they would be throwing a TON. Through 2 weeks none of that has happened. Godwin salvaged week 1 with a TD but so far Winston, Evans, and OJ Howard have not been good at all.

 

Pat yourself on the back of you think you’re right but my reasoning for not wanting Godwin still holds true. Winston is NOT very good and there’s a lot of mouths to feed. I’m sure OJ Howard’s agent will be calling the front office soon and Mike Evans won’t keep putting up duds will he?

 

Obviously unpopular opinion on this thread but because I wasn’t high on him to begin with and Winston/Arians have done anything to change my opinion of Winston, I would sell high immediately.

[Brutal Brutus 182]

Take Godwin's great game with a grain of salt since I was going against him.

[LoOnAtIk 75]

Boom monster game from Winston.

 

Dud from Godwin. Have fun with that headache ROS.

 

Kerryon day saved by TD but 20 carries for 36 yards... sheesh. Still waiting for his breakout game.

[TBayXXXVII 2,390]

Yeah, just too many mouths to feed.

[LoOnAtIk 75]

20 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Yeah, just too many mouths to feed.

How has Lockett been last couple weeks?

[TBayXXXVII 2,390]

1 hour ago, LoOnAtIk said:

How has Lockett been last couple weeks?

He's been doing well.  Don't remember when I said anything bad about him though... and really, his numbers aren't really all that different from Godwin's. 

[LoOnAtIk 75]

41 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

He's been doing well.  Don't remember when I said anything bad about him though... and really, his numbers aren't really all that different from Godwin's. 

Big difference is Lockett is dominating the target share for his team whereas Godwin is still playing 2nd fiddle to Mike Evans. That’s basically the point I tried to make all along where Godwin and Evans can put up monster weeks any given week, it will be hard to pinpoint who goes off each week (mouths to feed). I expect Lockett to be the more consistent option and that’s why I targeted him over Godwin. Call me lazy but thru 3 weeks you can’t call me wrong.

[NAn 39]

17 minutes ago, LoOnAtIk said:

Big difference is Lockett is dominating the target share for his team whereas Godwin is still playing 2nd fiddle to Mike Evans. That’s basically the point I tried to make all along where Godwin and Evans can put up monster weeks any given week, it will be hard to pinpoint who goes off each week (mouths to feed). I expect Lockett to be the more consistent option and that’s why I targeted him over Godwin. Call me lazy but thru 3 weeks you can’t call me wrong.

Think it was you and me that we're jawwing about Lockett/Godwin Loon and yes through 3 games:

Lockett 28tgts/22recs/277yds/2tds 10th ranked WR, 39.7 ffpts

Godwin 19tgts/14recs/214yds/2tds 19th ranked WR, 33.4 ffpts

Current rankings in line per FFTs preseason rankings/projections.

Personally happy with his production for what I paid for Godwin and what expect from him moving forward (think Evans monster game yesterday will just open up things more for him) and every receiver, even #1s have up and down weeks, but yes good call on Lockett.

[TBayXXXVII 2,390]

1 hour ago, LoOnAtIk said:

Big difference is Lockett is dominating the target share for his team whereas Godwin is still playing 2nd fiddle to Mike Evans. That’s basically the point I tried to make all along where Godwin and Evans can put up monster weeks any given week, it will be hard to pinpoint who goes off each week (mouths to feed). I expect Lockett to be the more consistent option and that’s why I targeted him over Godwin. Call me lazy but thru 3 weeks you can’t call me wrong.

Lockett can and probably will dominate the target share, but at seasons end, Godwin will most likely see more targets because Tampa throws the ball a lot more.  Also keep in mind, Godwin had 1 more target than Lockett in the first 2 games... Lockett just over took Godwin in game 3 because Seattle was getting blown out and Tampa has been in 3, relatively close, games.  I'm thinking we're all on the same page that come seasons end, Tampa will have about as many wins as Seattle has loses... meaning, Tampa is likely to be 6-10 and Seattle 10-6.  If that's the case, Tampa will be throwing a lot more than Seattle and Godwin will see more games with 8 to 12 targets.  In the end, I think both will end up near the same spot in catches, yards and TD's.

One thing you're starting to see is the drop in TD% for Lockett.  Last year, he got 1 TD per 7 targets (5.7 receptions) ... this year, it's 1 TD per 14 targets (11 receptions).  Godwin had 1 TD per 13.5 targets (8.4 receptions), and this year he's at 1 TD per 9.5 targets (7 receptions).  I don't think Lockett's volume over the last 2 games will continue as the Seahawks had 1 shootout and 1 blowout.  That's not likely to continue.

[huskyhater75 242]

I've got Barkley and Engram on my team. Every time I have NYG's on my team I have a crap season, this will be the second time I will swear (they're just bad luck for me) "no more Giants on my team ever again"!

[LoOnAtIk 75]

3 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Lockett can and probably will dominate the target share, but at seasons end, Godwin will most likely see more targets because Tampa throws the ball a lot more.  Also keep in mind, Godwin had 1 more target than Lockett in the first 2 games... Lockett just over took Godwin in game 3 because Seattle was getting blown out and Tampa has been in 3, relatively close, games.  I'm thinking we're all on the same page that come seasons end, Tampa will have about as many wins as Seattle has loses... meaning, Tampa is likely to be 6-10 and Seattle 10-6.  If that's the case, Tampa will be throwing a lot more than Seattle and Godwin will see more games with 8 to 12 targets.  In the end, I think both will end up near the same spot in catches, yards and TD's.

One thing you're starting to see is the drop in TD% for Lockett.  Last year, he got 1 TD per 7 targets (5.7 receptions) ... this year, it's 1 TD per 14 targets (11 receptions).  Godwin had 1 TD per 13.5 targets (8.4 receptions), and this year he's at 1 TD per 9.5 targets (7 receptions).  I don't think Lockett's volume over the last 2 games will continue as the Seahawks had 1 shootout and 1 blowout.  That's not likely to continue.

This all MAY come true but the point I’m trying to make since the beginning of the damn OP. Godwin is going to have many inconsistent weeks. This past week was Winston’s best showing thru 3 weeks and conversely it was Godwins worst performance of the year. How do you equate that going forward?

 

i see it as a headache.

[Matt Mueller 146]

I don't think any conclusions can be made from a 3 game sample size.

And regarding target share 2-12-14 seems more up and down than 6-9-4 not that that matters either really.

Godwin's 'down' game was 3 catches for 40 yards or 7 PPR points

Lockett's 'down' game was 1 catch-44 yards-1 td or 11.4 PPR points

Lockett very well may end up the better play as he's got a much better QB throwing him the ball and not as much target share competition but I'm not buying 3 games as proof of anything and certainly not the angle that his 1 catch game was proof of his consistency. 

[Matt Mueller 146]

That said Lockett is looking setup to eat in Arizona next week.  And if his 10+ target share trend continues he's likely going to keep producing at a high level.

 

He broke 6 targets once all of 2018 and it was a season high target share of 7.   He's never to this point been a high volume guy but if he is now possibly he's taking things to a different level.

 

Chris Godwin broke 6 targets 6 times in 2018 with target shares of 9-10-7-7-9-10

 

I'm just saying 3 games don't make a season.  I've got a bunch of Russell Wilson copies so wheels up as far as I'm concerned.

[LoOnAtIk 75]

On 9/13/2019 at 12:54 AM, Matt Mueller said:

Are we still talking about Chris Godwin?!

BOOM

So 3 game sample isn’t enough but a 2 game sample is?

 

Are you walking back your confidence in Godwin too?

[Matt Mueller 146]

I’m confuzzled.   I was just happy that I own Godwin in most of my dynasty leagues, and my redraft, and he was finally get his chance and shining and because his name was discussed here a ton I came in to lay a boom.  

Moving forward I think Godwins upside is capped some until Tampa figures out how to play offense.

I think the assumption was that Arians could help raise all tides in Tampa and that hasn’t quite happened yet. It straight sunk one of them.

Would I trade my Godwin shares for Locket in dynasty?  No

Would I flip Godwin for Lockett in my redraft?  I’d consider it.

[Matt Mueller 146]

Seattle can win without Lockett having big games 

Tampa isn’t likely to be competitive without Godwin going off often 

I think that was a key component to some arguments here and bared fruit again 

In a vaccum Lockett is a nice player. Chris Godwin is a stud 

Both will have nice game moving forward 

[bonkbonk 5]

Boom

[Canadianfan 76]

Another Godwin great Sunday.  Im going to have to admit it, Winston may make some boneheaded throws, but he's one hell of a fantasy QB so far in 2019, better than I thought.

 

And thanks to TBAY I actually drafted a bunch of these Bucs.   Have a great Godwin day boys and girls!

[TBayXXXVII 2,390]

8 hours ago, Matt Mueller said:

Seattle can win without Lockett having big games 

Tampa isn’t likely to be competitive without Godwin going off often 

I think that was a key component to some arguments here and bared fruit again 

In a vaccum Lockett is a nice player. Chris Godwin is a stud 

Both will have nice game moving forward 

Exactly, the "too many mouth's to feed" and "below average QB", were really terrible reasons.  There are reasons for the idea that Godwin wouldn't live up to his ADP, and I listed them in this thread, but the two that were given were just nonsense.

[LoOnAtIk 75]

3 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Exactly, the "too many mouth's to feed" and "below average QB", were really terrible reasons.  There are reasons for the idea that Godwin wouldn't live up to his ADP, and I listed them in this thread, but the two that were given were just nonsense.

Ahhhh look who crawled out of their hole! Welcome back! Great win for the Bucs. I actually played vs the Godwin owner in my league and he left him on the bench.

 

It was not a good matchup and he was questionable leading up. I know my opponent isn’t the only one that benched him.

 

And that’s the point I’ve basically been trying to make. He’s gonna have some good games and some stinkers and it’s hard to predict going forward. 

 

I call BS if you thought Winston and the Bucs were gonna put up that many points in LA. The o/u for the game was 49 and they were 10 point dogs.

[Matt Mueller 146]

^ This is becoming people cherry picking arguments to prove some point.

The ONLY reason Godwin was on anyones bench was because he was questionable with an injury all week or if you had a wealth of WR talent.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,390]

1 hour ago, LoOnAtIk said:

Ahhhh look who crawled out of their hole! Welcome back! Great win for the Bucs. I actually played vs the Godwin owner in my league and he left him on the bench.

 

It was not a good matchup and he was questionable leading up. I know my opponent isn’t the only one that benched him.

 

And that’s the point I’ve basically been trying to make. He’s gonna have some good games and some stinkers and it’s hard to predict going forward. 

 

I call BS if you thought Winston and the Bucs were gonna put up that many points in LA. The o/u for the game was 49 and they were 10 point dogs.

Crawled out?  Meaning I haven't posted since the start of the season?  I believe I posted every week.

It was not a good match-up?  What?  How would the Rams NOT be a good match-up?  The Rams get into shootouts all the time with pass heavy offenses.  Tampa is essentially a pass-only offense.  This game have 40+-30+ written all over it.  Sure, I expected Tampa to lose, I thought the over was a guaranteed lock.  Just because a team is an underdog, it doesn't mean they're not going to score.  I can understand why people would consider benching him if they were concerned about the injury, because you never do know how serious these things can be.  That said, no body benched Godwin based on the match-up.  Mainly, because the people who drafted Godwin, got him earlier than you did would have, because they believed in him.  You always start players you believe in, if you believe they're going to play.

To this day, he's had 2 great games, 1 good game, and 1 stinker.  Give me a list of fantasy WR2's that have better than a 75% success rate that were being picked 2 or more rounds after Godwin.  Considering that he's the #3 fantasy WR right now (Evan's in #5 by the way), I'm going to go out on a limb and say that your list has no names on it.  Oh, and before you come up with some excuse why 14.3 points isn't a good game for a WR2, I'll point out to you that Godwin was WR18 from 8/1 to 9/1 this draft season.  Last year, WR18 (Jarvis Landry), averaged 13.6 ppg last year.  So, for a WR2, 14.3 is a good total.

No one predicted 48 points on offense for the Bucs.  But, I saw no reason why the Bucs couldn't put up 24 to 35.  They've done that quite often in the recent past.  Over the last 20 games, the Bucs put up 24 points or more on 12 occasions.  If Godwin had 5 for 100 and a score... and the Bucs only put up 24 points, I don't think anyone would be upset.  A 21 point game from a WR 2 is pretty awesome.  By the way, I used 5/100/1 on purpose (because he did that last year in November against the Panthers).  Don't worry, I won't bring up the game last year where both Godwin and Evans both had 6 catches, over 100 yards, and 2 TD's... because, you know, they had too many mouth's to feed and had a bad QB.  We'll keep that between you and I.

 

[Matt Mueller 146]

I've figured it out.

LoOnAtIk is actually OJ Howard 

[LoOnAtIk 75]

2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Crawled out?  Meaning I haven't posted since the start of the season?  I believe I posted every week.

It was not a good match-up?  What?  How would the Rams NOT be a good match-up?  The Rams get into shootouts all the time with pass heavy offenses.  Tampa is essentially a pass-only offense.  This game have 40+-30+ written all over it.  Sure, I expected Tampa to lose, I thought the over was a guaranteed lock.  Just because a team is an underdog, it doesn't mean they're not going to score.  I can understand why people would consider benching him if they were concerned about the injury, because you never do know how serious these things can be.  That said, no body benched Godwin based on the match-up.  Mainly, because the people who drafted Godwin, got him earlier than you did would have, because they believed in him.  You always start players you believe in, if you believe they're going to play.

To this day, he's had 2 great games, 1 good game, and 1 stinker.  Give me a list of fantasy WR2's that have better than a 75% success rate that were being picked 2 or more rounds after Godwin.  Considering that he's the #3 fantasy WR right now (Evan's in #5 by the way), I'm going to go out on a limb and say that your list has no names on it.  Oh, and before you come up with some excuse why 14.3 points isn't a good game for a WR2, I'll point out to you that Godwin was WR18 from 8/1 to 9/1 this draft season.  Last year, WR18 (Jarvis Landry), averaged 13.6 ppg last year.  So, for a WR2, 14.3 is a good total.

No one predicted 48 points on offense for the Bucs.  But, I saw no reason why the Bucs couldn't put up 24 to 35.  They've done that quite often in the recent past.  Over the last 20 games, the Bucs put up 24 points or more on 12 occasions.  If Godwin had 5 for 100 and a score... and the Bucs only put up 24 points, I don't think anyone would be upset.  A 21 point game from a WR 2 is pretty awesome.  By the way, I used 5/100/1 on purpose (because he did that last year in November against the Panthers).  Don't worry, I won't bring up the game last year where both Godwin and Evans both had 6 catches, over 100 yards, and 2 TD's... because, you know, they had too many mouth's to feed and had a bad QB.  We'll keep that between you and I.

 

You should make a killing in Vegas then because Vegas said it would be a bad matchup. They had the buccaneers with an implied total of 19.5 which is NOT GOOD. They scored 17 week 1 at home then 20 points in their only road game of the season. But if course you and everyone else had them scoring a ton of points this week. Again have you ever been to Vegas? Football is random, I think 7-8 underdogs won this week. 

 

My opponent benched him. Of course he’s kicking himself but he can’t be the only one. I myself don’t have to worry about that because I never drafted him.

 

I’ll concede that his overall points are excellent so far and that’s not too surprising. It’s just hard to find any correlation between his good and bad games, which can be difficult to predict going forward. 

 

Questionable going into the game and a bad matchup (idc what you thought you know Vegas had buccaneers not scoring points. 19.5 implied total had to be one of the lowest totals for any team this week.) and he has his best game of the season, last week Jameis had his best game of the season and Godwin was barely a part of it. 

 

So far, he has not been a bust, at all. So in my OP I would concede he hasn’t been a bust but my logic for not drafting him still stands you can’t argue this TBay. For as much as you love Winston, that pick 6 he threw to Peters was AWFUL. Can you deny that? Winston is not a very good QB I still believe that. 

 

Volume is key for Godwin but it’s hard to predict week to week who will dominate targets and if Winston has a bad week, it won’t even matter who dominates the targets.

[TBayXXXVII 2,390]

16 hours ago, LoOnAtIk said:

You should make a killing in Vegas then because Vegas said it would be a bad matchup. They had the buccaneers with an implied total of 19.5 which is NOT GOOD. They scored 17 week 1 at home then 20 points in their only road game of the season. But if course you and everyone else had them scoring a ton of points this week. Again have you ever been to Vegas? Football is random, I think 7-8 underdogs won this week. 

 

My opponent benched him. Of course he’s kicking himself but he can’t be the only one. I myself don’t have to worry about that because I never drafted him.

 

I’ll concede that his overall points are excellent so far and that’s not too surprising. It’s just hard to find any correlation between his good and bad games, which can be difficult to predict going forward. 

 

Questionable going into the game and a bad matchup (idc what you thought you know Vegas had buccaneers not scoring points. 19.5 implied total had to be one of the lowest totals for any team this week.) and he has his best game of the season, last week Jameis had his best game of the season and Godwin was barely a part of it. 

 

So far, he has not been a bust, at all. So in my OP I would concede he hasn’t been a bust but my logic for not drafting him still stands you can’t argue this TBay. For as much as you love Winston, that pick 6 he threw to Peters was AWFUL. Can you deny that? Winston is not a very good QB I still believe that. 

 

Volume is key for Godwin but it’s hard to predict week to week who will dominate targets and if Winston has a bad week, it won’t even matter who dominates the targets.

I told you what was going to happen 2 months ago... and it's happening.  There aren't "too many mouths to feed" and the "bad QB" doesn't matter in fantasy as fantasy and NFL are two different things.  Jay Cutler was a bad QB and was a starter 10 seasons.  Nothing more needs to be said.

Oh, and you will never find a quote from me where I said I loved Winston.  You're just making that up to make yourself feel better I guess.  In fact, you'll never find a post of mine where I said I "LIKED" him.  You're more likely to find multiple posts where I said the Bucs need to replace him.

[LoOnAtIk 75]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I told you what was going to happen 2 months ago... and it's happening.  There aren't "too many mouths to feed" and the "bad QB" doesn't matter in fantasy as fantasy and NFL are two different things.  Jay Cutler was a bad QB and was a starter 10 seasons.  Nothing more needs to be said.

Oh, and you will never find a quote from me where I said I loved Winston.  You're just making that up to make yourself feel better I guess.  In fact, you'll never find a post of mine where I said I "LIKED" him.  You're more likely to find multiple posts where I said the Bucs need to replace him.

Dude gimme a break you spent months trying to tell me he’s good and you said I don’t like him because of his character flaws. Gtfoh.

[NAn 39]

All WRs are dependent on volume (any position for that matter), all WRs have good and bad games.

Lockett just came off 4recs/51yds

Target share, Godwin 8.3% (10th) , Lockett 8.0% (12th)

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/reports/targets/wr.php

Catch percentage, Godwin 76.47% (19th), Lockett 81,25% (7th)

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#catch-percentage

They're both top 10 in targets Godwin 34, Locket 32

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#targets

and top 6 in recs (both 26)

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#receptions

Godwin 386yds.4tds, 62.6 ff pts (2nd), Lockett 328yds/2tds, 44.8 ff pts (12th)

https://fftoday.com/stats/playerstats.php?Season=2019&GameWeek=&PosID=30&LeagueID=

 Godwin right there w/Lockett in most key stats, they'll likely both finish at least top 15, maybe top 5-10, but Godwin typically cheaper in auction and snake drafts.

[LoOnAtIk 75]

11 hours ago, NAn said:

All WRs are dependent on volume (any position for that matter), all WRs have good and bad games.

Lockett just came off 4recs/51yds

Target share, Godwin 8.3% (10th) , Lockett 8.0% (12th)

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/reports/targets/wr.php

Catch percentage, Godwin 76.47% (19th), Lockett 81,25% (7th)

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#catch-percentage

They're both top 10 in targets Godwin 34, Locket 32

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#targets

and top 6 in recs (both 26)

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#receptions

Godwin 386yds.4tds, 62.6 ff pts (2nd), Lockett 328yds/2tds, 44.8 ff pts (12th)

https://fftoday.com/stats/playerstats.php?Season=2019&GameWeek=&PosID=30&LeagueID=

 Godwin right there w/Lockett in most key stats, they'll likely both finish at least top 15, maybe top 5-10, but Godwin typically cheaper in auction and snake drafts.

Godwin cheaper? I remember their ADPs being more or less the same. Either way, bottom line yes Godwin has scored a bunch of points that is not in dispute. But the boom or bust nature of his performances make it difficult to correlate when he’ll blow up. Unless you’re confidently starting him every week, teams with multiple options at WR might not feel so confident every week. Case and point my opponent benched him this week in favor of Alshon Jeffrey and Marvin Jones. It’s easy to call him a donkey now in hindsight but I know he can’t be the only one who benched him, or at the very least contemplated it.

[NAn 39]

15 hours ago, LoOnAtIk said:

Godwin cheaper? I remember their ADPs being more or less the same. Either way, bottom line yes Godwin has scored a bunch of points that is not in dispute. But the boom or bust nature of his performances make it difficult to correlate when he’ll blow up. Unless you’re confidently starting him every week, teams with multiple options at WR might not feel so confident every week. Case and point my opponent benched him this week in favor of Alshon Jeffrey and Marvin Jones. It’s easy to call him a donkey now in hindsight but I know he can’t be the only one who benched him, or at the very least contemplated it.

 

ADP per FF calculator was Godwin 6.06, Lockett 4.05

Though FFT had it at 4.06 and 4.07 respectively and Godwin was climbing towards end so could be.

I personally I got Godwin for like 8-10 cheaper than Lockett went for in my auction league.

And yes he was benched by a few ppl I'm sure.  Would argue more to do with questionable status than confidence in him, others may argue that owners not thinking of him as a 'must start' to date.

Either way doesn't change fact that he had stat line of 14tgts/12recs/172yds/2tds 

[LoOnAtIk 75]

2 hours ago, NAn said:

 

ADP per FF calculator was Godwin 6.06, Lockett 4.05

Though FFT had it at 4.06 and 4.07 respectively and Godwin was climbing towards end so could be.

I personally I got Godwin for like 8-10 cheaper than Lockett went for in my auction league.

And yes he was benched by a few ppl I'm sure.  Would argue more to do with questionable status than confidence in him, others may argue that owners not thinking of him as a 'must start' to date.

Either way doesn't change fact that he had stat line of 14tgts/12recs/172yds/2tds 

I would assume those are all career highs? I’ve never doubted his talent I’ve just always been skeptical of drafting players on bad teams, regardless of how much volume you expect to go around. Tampa is 2-2 and they could not be more mysterious in terms of “are they good or not?”

 

The assumption that just because Winston will throw a lot doesn’t equate to the old saying “rising tide raises all ships” just because I don’t view him as talented enough IMO. When was the last time you saw a bad QB make  2-3 fantasy relevant WRs in 1 season? 

 

I know Cutler was already mentioned but he was never viewed as a bad QB until hindsight. In his prime Denver/Chicago days he was still being drafted as a top 10 fantasy QB. Albeit a bust almost every season.

 

I’ve seen enough from Winston to know that he simply is not special. He needs to scale it back and try to do less. Whenever he’s asked to do too much, the bonehead plays start to pile up. Hard for me to trust any WR on that team, Evans included.

[AxeElf 787]

5 minutes ago, LoOnAtIk said:

When was the last time you saw a bad QB make  2-3 fantasy relevant WRs in 1 season? 

In 2018, Adam Thielen and Stefon Diggs were both top 10 PPR WRs.

Just sayin'...

[LoOnAtIk 75]

22 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

In 2018, Adam Thielen and Stefon Diggs were both top 10 PPR WRs.

Just sayin'...

Again that’s in hindsight because he’s playing so bad now.

 

4300 yards 30:10 TD:INT is bad? Taking his team deep into playoffs? He actually improved last season from the year prior.

 

Easy to say in hindsight. 

[AxeElf 787]

3 hours ago, LoOnAtIk said:

4300 yards 30:10 TD:INT is bad?

You were talking about Winston as a "bad" QB; Cousins' stats are comparable to Winston's, aren't they?

Winston only played in 11 games last year, but if you prorate his partial-season stats out to 16 games, he had 4,352 yards, 28 TDs and 20 INTs.

Ok, 10 more INTs, but that doesn't seem like it should make much difference to his WRs production.  If Cousins can support 2 fantasy-relevant (top 10 even) WRs, why can't Winston?

[LoOnAtIk 75]

2 hours ago, AxeElf said:

You were talking about Winston as a "bad" QB; Cousins' stats are comparable to Winston's, aren't they?

Winston only played in 11 games last year, but if you prorate his partial-season stats out to 16 games, he had 4,352 yards, 28 TDs and 20 INTs.

Ok, 10 more INTs, but that doesn't seem like it should make much difference to his WRs production.  If Cousins can support 2 fantasy-relevant (top 10 even) WRs, why can't Winston?

Lol you extrapolated his numbers only to boost my argument? I didn’t know the elf was such a gentleman.

 

It shouldn’t make a difference to the fantasy production of your WRs until he gets benched in real life for losing so many games. It literally happened last year, albeit slightly different situation.

 

My point that I’ve been making all along is there’s no way Arians took the job and wanted everything to stay as it was, because that would mean 5 wins. 

 

Even if Peyton Barber stinks, I expect(ed) more balance in the offense as opposed to last year.

[LoOnAtIk 75]

2 hours ago, AxeElf said:

You were talking about Winston as a "bad" QB; Cousins' stats are comparable to Winston's, aren't they?

Winston only played in 11 games last year, but if you prorate his partial-season stats out to 16 games, he had 4,352 yards, 28 TDs and 20 INTs.

Ok, 10 more INTs, but that doesn't seem like it should make much difference to his WRs production.  If Cousins can support 2 fantasy-relevant (top 10 even) WRs, why can't Winston?

Also not to mention Cousins finished top 5 in fantasy a couple years ago, and he arguably had a better season last year. I’m not calling Cousins good or even great but damn his résumé poops on Winston’s doesn’t it? 

 

Playoff appearances? I mean I think Cousins has him beat by every possible measure except INTs.

[AxeElf 787]

18 minutes ago, LoOnAtIk said:

Lol you extrapolated his numbers only to boost my argument? I didn’t know the elf was such a gentleman.

My bad, I thought your argument was that a bad QB, like Winston or Cousins, could NOT make 2-3 WRs fantasy relevant in 1 season.  I must have thought that because you said:

6 hours ago, LoOnAtIk said:

When was the last time you saw a bad QB make  2-3 fantasy relevant WRs in 1 season? 

But I guess you said that rhetorically, knowing that the answer was 2018 when Cousins made both Diggs and Thielen top 10 WRs, and that your argument was that a bad QB, like Winston or Cousins, COULD in fact make 2-3 WRs fantasy relevant in one season, because Cousins did it in 2018.  And since Cousins did it in 2018, Winston, who posts numbers similar to Cousins, could surely do it too.

I'm glad we're on the same page with that.

12 minutes ago, LoOnAtIk said:

I’m not calling Cousins good or even great but damn his résumé poops on Winston’s doesn’t it? 

If by "poops on," you mean, "generally mirrors," then yes.

And I thought you said that extrapolating Winston's numbers strengthened your argument?  Now you're making it sound like Winston's extrapolated numbers are NOT essentially the same as Cousins'...?

I would say you need to pick a side and stick with it, but I'm not sure it even matters... I was just trying to put your statement about bad QBs and fantasy relevant WRs into perspective.  Whether you're arguing for it or against it is actually irrelevant; the bottom line is that it happens.  The last time it happened was with the Vikings in 2018, and it's happening now with the Buccaneers. 

[Frozenbeernuts 1,883]

On 9/30/2019 at 2:25 PM, Matt Mueller said:

I've figured it out.

LoOnAtIk is actually OJ Howard 

LoOnAtIk, can you catch more passes please? Thanks