I find it hard to not see trans as mental illness...

[Strike 4,945]

46 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

It’s not my opinion. It’s the vast majority of health experts. Just as with climate change there’s always a few that disagree; my usual assumption is that it’s for publicity. 

When Tim posts a generalization such as the above you know he's just making sh*t up again........

[League Champion 1,808]

On 5/3/2023 at 9:00 PM, League Champion said:

 

That didn't age well

[Horseman 2,131]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

At this point I’m having trouble not seeing anti-trans rants as a mental illness. The obsession you guys have with this is truly disturbing. 

Tu quoque

Or as more popular known, the Tim Kindergarten Fallacy.  

[Fireballer 2,625]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

It’s not my opinion. It’s the vast majority of health experts. Just as with climate change there’s always a few that disagree; my usual assumption is that it’s for publicity. 

And this is why you’re a joke.  You believe this gobbledygook about trans and don’t even take the time to research.  You continually prove you’re a weak man with waaay too much trust in our institutions.  Trans ideology is born out of WPATH nonsense.  All the “medical experts” are actually a bunch of WPATH disciples or a bunch of political lobbying groups. AMA?  APA?  Do you even know why gender dysphoria removed from being considered a mental illness in clinical texts? Hint…it’s rooted in no science at all.  

 

[Cdub100 3,734]

2 hours ago, Dizkneelande said:

“ 75% of those with gender dysphoria desist, and 30% of transitioners detrans, then 83% of those with gender dysphoria detrans or desist.”

Imagine how many people could be saved from irreversible harm if we gave them proper psychological support instead.

Proper support is the key. 

NOT affirming care. 

[Alias Detective 1,345]

The newly minted Grammy winner, for best new artist, rocked the Crypto.com Arena with her ode to queer sexuality, "Pink Pony Club." The number featured a posse of rodeo clowns and, of course, a giant pink pony as Roan celebrated her appreciation for Los Angeles as a place where the Missouri native felt she could be herself.

The song was a deliberate statement by Roan in the face of recent moves by the Trump administration to restrict LGBTQ+ rights. Only a few hours after being sworn in as president, he signed an order to declare that there are "only two sexes."

[squistion 1,776]

On 2/1/2025 at 1:42 PM, Dizkneelande said:

“ 75% of those with gender dysphoria desist, and 30% of transitioners detrans, then 83% of those with gender dysphoria detrans or desist.”

Imagine how many people could be saved from irreversible harm if we gave them proper psychological support instead.

The poster threw those numbers out but has offered no proof that those statistics are valid. 

[kilroy69 1,171]

Here is a good one. I always thought the AMA was a group of doctors that was looked to as like an American board of doctors that had the publics interest in mind. Turns out I could not have been more wrong. The AMA is just a lobbying group for doctors. They are going to say whatever makes doctors the most money. 

[Fireballer 2,625]

7 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

Here is a good one. I always thought the AMA was a group of doctors that was looked to as like an American board of doctors that had the publics interest in mind. Turns out I could not have been more wrong. The AMA is just a lobbying group for doctors. They are going to say whatever makes doctors the most money. 

 Bingo. 

[Engorgeous George 1,946]

 

[jerryskids 6,317]

3 hours ago, kilroy69 said:

Here is a good one. I always thought the AMA was a group of doctors that was looked to as like an American board of doctors that had the publics interest in mind. Turns out I could not have been more wrong. The AMA is just a lobbying group for doctors. They are going to say whatever makes doctors the most money. 

Yup.  I've been saying this to @The Real timschochetsince he started posting here, every time his says something like "I'll follow the guidance of the AMA/APA".  Those groups are not medical groups, and not based on any scientific results.  They are lobbying groups.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,593]

9 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Yup.  I've been saying this to @The Real timschochetsince he started posting here, every time his says something like "I'll follow the guidance of the AMA/APA".  Those groups are not medical groups, and not based on any scientific results.  They are lobbying groups.

Tim may as well be saying "I'll follow the guidance of the propaganda groups" because that is EXACTLY what they are.  I wish he would just be honest.

[jerryskids 6,317]

11 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Tim may as well be saying "I'll follow the guidance of the propaganda groups" because that is EXACTLY what they are.  I wish he would just be honest.

Well, to be fair, he also feels the need to follow the MSM.  He wants to have authoritative sources that he feels he can trust.  I don't blame him for that.  I think that for most of our existence, we've trusted such sources.  We had no alternatives.  But now, with the ubiquity of information, we realize that we are often being fed a line of bull.

I think that this has always been the case; that the MSM fed us what they thought we should know.

And with that, a recognition that under this model, the US continues to be the greatest country in the history of the world.

It begs an interesting question:  should we just swallow the blue pill like Tim has and let them continue, or pursue the truth and risk upsetting the apple cart of the NGOs running things?   

[League Champion 1,808]

6 hours ago, squistion said:

The poster threw those numbers out but has offered no proof that those statistics are valid. 

If its not a Mental Illness then what is it? 

[TheNewGirl 1,224]

7 hours ago, squistion said:

The poster threw those numbers out but has offered no proof that those statistics are valid. 

there might be more info here, I didn't read the entire thing: https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/mental-health/gender-dysphoria/gender-dysphoria-statistics/

[Sandy Loam 11]

4 hours ago, League Champion said:

If its not a Mental Illness then what is it? 

Biology.

It's a conflicting argument:

Transgenderism is a mental illness.

Transgenderism is a choice.

What is it?

Do people with mental illnesses choose to have mental illnesses? Bipolar? Depression? Schizophrenia? Narcissism? Being a sociopath?

If transgenderism is a product of biology, do we classify it as a mental illness or look at it in terms of your biology identifying you as a male, and the chemicals in their bodies tell them that they are female?

Is that really a mental illness if your biology tells you what gender you are?

I rule out it being a choice, frankly.

But just because one has twigs and berries or girly body parts doesn't mean biology and chemical makeup can't tell you that you belong on the other side. 

I'm not a fan of smashing transgenderism into people's faces, but I do think there needs to be acceptance of those who've known since they were very young that had a chemically different identity than the physiology they were assigned at birth.

 

[RLLD 3,985]

17 hours ago, League Champion said:

If its not a Mental Illness then what is it? 

It is a mental illness.    Ignoring that fact is problem A, which then leads to problem B.....not treating these people properly.

At least Europe has figured this out and is pulling back on the misguided way they have handled these unfortunate people.  The problem for us being that culturally liberals refuse to admit when they are wrong.

[Red White and Blue 0]

13 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

Biology.

It's a conflicting argument:

Transgenderism is a mental illness.

Transgenderism is a choice.

What is it?

Do people with mental illnesses choose to have mental illnesses? Bipolar? Depression? Schizophrenia? Narcissism? Being a sociopath?

If transgenderism is a product of biology, do we classify it as a mental illness or look at it in terms of your biology identifying you as a male, and the chemicals in their bodies tell them that they are female?

Is that really a mental illness if your biology tells you what gender you are?

I rule out it being a choice, frankly.

But just because one has twigs and berries or girly body parts doesn't mean biology and chemical makeup can't tell you that you belong on the other side. 

I'm not a fan of smashing transgenderism into people's faces, but I do think there needs to be acceptance of those who've known since they were very young that had a chemically different identity than the physiology they were assigned at birth.

 

Spot on. Unfortunately some folks just want to heap scorn on them for political reasons.

[edjr 6,429]

5 minutes ago, Red White and Blue said:

Spot on. Unfortunately some folks just want to heap scorn on them for political reasons.

I am not registered, I loathe politics and really both sides. I have no affiliation. I have an uncle who has dressed like a woman (mostly for shows) barbara streisand is one of his favorites. He only did it for show and not a lifestyle.

Trans is a mental illness.  

[listen2me 23 1,779]

13 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

Biology.

It's a conflicting argument:

Transgenderism is a mental illness.

Transgenderism is a choice.

What is it?

Do people with mental illnesses choose to have mental illnesses? Bipolar? Depression? Schizophrenia? Narcissism? Being a sociopath?

If transgenderism is a product of biology, do we classify it as a mental illness or look at it in terms of your biology identifying you as a male, and the chemicals in their bodies tell them that they are female?

Is that really a mental illness if your biology tells you what gender you are?

I rule out it being a choice, frankly.

But just because one has twigs and berries or girly body parts doesn't mean biology and chemical makeup can't tell you that you belong on the other side. 

I'm not a fan of smashing transgenderism into people's faces, but I do think there needs to be acceptance of those who've known since they were very young that had a chemically different identity than the physiology they were assigned at birth.

 

What % of people who ID as trans actually have biology to back it up?  What would you guess?

[Red White and Blue 0]

3 minutes ago, edjr said:

I am not registered, I loathe politics and really both sides. I have no affiliation. I have an uncle who has dressed like a woman (mostly for shows) barbara streisand is one of his favorites. He only did it for show and not a lifestyle.

Trans is a mental illness.  

Maybe, maybe not, so what? I try not to shiit on people who have mental illnesses. 

[edjr 6,429]

1 minute ago, Red White and Blue said:

Maybe, maybe not, so what? I try not to shiit on people who have mental illnesses. 

they belong in shutter island

[squistion 1,776]

26 minutes ago, edjr said:

I am not registered, I loathe politics and really both sides. I have no affiliation. I have an uncle who has dressed like a woman (mostly for shows) barbara streisand is one of his favorites. He only did it for show and not a lifestyle.

Trans is a mental illness.  

"My uncle is a female impersonator (mostly for shows) but trans is a mental illness"

lol 

[Sandy Loam 11]

25 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

What % of people who ID as trans actually have biology to back it up?  What would you guess?

I do know a few trans women, and every one of them have believed they were women since they were very young.

I think bodily chemistry has everything to do with the bulk of transgenderism as well as mental illness, such as bipolar disorder or being a sociopath on the extreme end. 

I'm sure there are plenty of forum members here who suffer from depression or other mental issues, which medication can help control.

But I don't think transgenderism as whole is any more of a mental illness than how each of us identify ourselves genderwise.

Completely different from the paranoid shizophreniac who hears voices in his head and kills and eats his mother. True story. He was found criminal insane and put into the nuthouse, where medication made him as normal as could be and sane enough to have a thoughtful interview with the media. But before he got put away, he went off his meds and killed his mom. 

The trans women I know have it hard, and a lot of the mental illnesses they have were the result of growing up confused, scared and seeing the world as a place in which trans people are despised, as they are here.

Imagine growing up knowing you're different, listening to all the hatred and having to hide who you are. That's a recipe for mental illness right there.

[TheNewGirl 1,224]

2 minutes ago, Sandy Loam said:

 

I think bodily chemistry has everything to do with the bulk of transgenderism as well as mental illness, such as bipolar disorder or being a sociopath on the extreme end. 

 

Just thinking out loud here...

 

Do we have proof that body chemistry and trans are linked? 

I know that there is proof of other mental illnesses and body chemistry; too much of one or not enough of another, etc. they've taken MRIs of schizophrenic brains, brains where you can see what centers are active/underactive. 

Do we have the research and proof that gender dysphoria IS a brain chemistry thing? Just wondering. 

Gender dysphoria is the mental illness; transitioning is the "cure." However, are we taking into account those that desist or detrans? And if transitioning actually improves their life after? Upwards of 70% of them are still depressed, and they have an incredibly high suicide rate; even AFTER transitioning. That doesn't sound like much of a cure, at least in my non-doctoral opinion. 

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,420]

On 2/1/2025 at 5:01 PM, The Real timschochet said:

It’s not my opinion. It’s the vast majority of health experts activists. Just as with climate change activists there’s always a few that disagree; my usual assumption is that it’s for publicity. 

FIFY

[Sandy Loam 11]

15 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

Just thinking out loud here...

 

Do we have proof that body chemistry and trans are linked? 

I know that there is proof of other mental illnesses and body chemistry; too much of one or not enough of another, etc. they've taken MRIs of schizophrenic brains, brains where you can see what centers are active/underactive. 

Do we have the research and proof that gender dysphoria IS a brain chemistry thing? Just wondering. 

Gender dysphoria is the mental illness; transitioning is the "cure." However, are we taking into account those that desist or detrans? And if transitioning actually improves their life after? Upwards of 70% of them are still depressed, and they have an incredibly high suicide rate; even AFTER transitioning. That doesn't sound like much of a cure, at least in my non-doctoral opinion. 

 

You're absolutely right about the high percentage of them being despressed and having a high suicide rate, and I wonder how much of that is atributable to what they experience growing up in world of hate and transfobia. Imagine a 10-year-old child hearing what our president has said about trans people. A couple of the trans women I know have been homeless because their parents would not accept them and kicked them out of the house.

One trans woman I know didn't come out until her early 20s and was blessed with growing up in a loving, accepting home. 

I know another couple whose pre-pubescent daughter believed herself to be a boy, and the parents trumpted that on social media, which I found rather digusting because it looked to me like they were more about being apart of something trendy. Let's see how the kid feels in five or more years, mmmm k?

I don't think transgenderism is a choice. The transgender people I know don't like it that certain aspects of their culture are shoving it down people's throats, drawing a lot of negative attention. 

[jerryskids 6,317]

13 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

Biology.

It's a conflicting argument:

Transgenderism is a mental illness.

Transgenderism is a choice.

What is it?

Do people with mental illnesses choose to have mental illnesses? Bipolar? Depression? Schizophrenia? Narcissism? Being a sociopath?

If transgenderism is a product of biology, do we classify it as a mental illness or look at it in terms of your biology identifying you as a male, and the chemicals in their bodies tell them that they are female?

Is that really a mental illness if your biology tells you what gender you are?

I rule out it being a choice, frankly.

But just because one has twigs and berries or girly body parts doesn't mean biology and chemical makeup can't tell you that you belong on the other side. 

I'm not a fan of smashing transgenderism into people's faces, but I do think there needs to be acceptance of those who've known since they were very young that had a chemically different identity than the physiology they were assigned at birth.

 

Mostly good post, but a few things.

I think you are lumping multiple things into "transgender."  There are a very small number of people who have gender dysphoria.  But there are also others who have autogynephilia (when a man is aroused by thinking of himself as a woman), drag queens like edjr's uncle, and unfortunately, confused kids who are told by peers and "authorities" that they are the other gender.  And of course the men who pretend to be women to get into safe spaces (15% of "women" in prisons are trans women, that's a bit higher than the 1%-ish of the population!).

Sticking with the true gender dysphoria, that is a mental illness, like the other items you listed.  If your mind thinks you are a different gender than your body is, that is a mental illness.  That is independent of if the cause is biological, chemical, etc.  Like the other ones you listed.

The question is what we do about it.  For all of your other items, we have combinations of medicines and therapies to treat them.  But the only "treatment" we have for trans is to... help them trans.  Is that like helping someone be depressed?  Sociopathic?  It seems odd to treat an illness in this manner.