Systemic Racism

[KSB2424 3,100]

5 hours ago, MDC said:

Sure you are.

I know you don't believe it but I am open to learning or changing views if I can be sold by facts and commons sense.  Feel free to bring either. 

[KSB2424 3,100]

32 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

And look how long to get them, it has been a slow process. Your ancestors had them from day one.

But why has it been so slow?  Why Baker Boy?  

As Strike just mentioned other people of color have come to America, been here for generations, and are thriving.  Even if not thriving, they are feeding their families and go about their day.

[Baker Boy 1,647]

2 hours ago, KSB2424 said:

I’ll keep a tally

1. school choice

2.  ?

These things happen slowly, school choice is just a fix for some. The government is not going to fix things on their own, Black Americans have had to march and demonstrate for every scrap  the government gave them and their votes were their incentive. Now we’ve come to the next cry for help. The riots and burnings are taking away from the voice and message of the the people who want a fair start and fair treatment. Have you noticed how the majority/many of the rioters are white?

Why don’t you start your list in 1776 with Slavery and see the progression and how long it took. I don’t agree with what is going on now but at some point people just snap. I think a lot of board members are close too. It is the rhetoric of the Deep State and the MSM (which has become part of the deep state) that fueled this fire and they wanted it to happen. It is divide and conquer and it is working beautifully for them. Black and Whites hating each other again.
 

For the politicians it is all about power for them and  they are making a power grab right now because the Orange Man has thrown a wrench in their plans. It was suppose to be 16 years of Obama and Hillary, load up the supreme court, pass legislation and it was clear sailing from there.

 

[KSB2424 3,100]

13 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

Why don’t you start your list in 1776 

 

Because the topic was examples of systemic / institutional racism IN 2020.  

My list started January 1, 2020.

Nobody is arguing slavery or Jim Crow laws never existed.  If I am reading your posts correctly your arguement is that its take way longer than 55 years for those things to run their course, even with things like Affirmative Action in place.  

My question is, how long....55 more years?  Forever?

[peenie 1,813]

Why aren’t Chinese people using forks and spoons? I think forks pick up rice better than chopsticks and spoons pick up soup better than chopsticks? 
 

[Baker Boy 1,647]

39 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

But why has it been so slow?  Why Baker Boy?  

As Strike just mentioned other people of color have come to America, been here for generations, and are thriving.  Even if not thriving, they are feeding their families and go about their day.

Because they had to fight for every thing they got and the Government was not going to fix it all at once. They needed the votes to keep coming.

 

[peenie 1,813]

Why are you all discussing blacks as if we’re all living in poverty? Why are you defining us as a group by the lowest of us: the criminal, the unemployed and the welfare mom buying scratch offs??

[Baker Boy 1,647]

28 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Because the topic was examples of systemic / institutional racism IN 2020.  

My list started January 1, 2020.

Nobody is arguing slavery or Jim Crow laws never existed.  If I am reading your posts correctly your arguement is that its take way longer than 55 years for those things to run their course, even with things like Affirmative Action in place.  

My question is, how long....55 more years?  Forever?

Well that gives us 8 months. I told you currently it is school choice, these things happen one at a time for 140 years. You can’t limit to it 8 months when you discuss it because you can’t get the entire picture. 

I will ask you again why the Deep State is so opposed to school choice. Why.

[peenie 1,813]

Native Americans have a high poverty rate. Do you all actually believe they were poor prior to the invaders arrival? My history tells me the natives saved the colonizers and helped them though the winter. Note how the Native American, some, languish away on reservations. Is that due to their lack of moral character? Their voting habits? OR THEIR HISTORICAL CIRCUMSTANCES????!!!!

[Strike 4,815]

21 minutes ago, peenie said:

Why aren’t Chinese people using forks and spoons? I think forks pick up rice better than chopsticks and spoons pick up soup better than chopsticks? 
 

WTF is wrong with you?  Focking racist.

[peenie 1,813]

3 minutes ago, Strike said:

WTF is wrong with you?  Focking racist.

What is racist about what I wrote? I think you better review the definition of racism.

Can you answer why most Asian folks eat with chopsticks instead of fork and spoon?

[Hardcore troubadour 14,164]

2 minutes ago, peenie said:

What is racist about what I wrote? I think you better review the definition of racism.

Can you answer why most Asian folks eat with chopsticks instead of fork and spoon?

Tradition.  

[MDC 6,762]

1 hour ago, KSB2424 said:

I know you don't believe it but I am open to learning or changing views if I can be sold by facts and commons sense.  Feel free to bring either. 

Stop it.

[Baker Boy 1,647]

11 minutes ago, peenie said:

What is racist about what I wrote? I think you better review the definition of racism.

Can you answer why most Asian folks eat with chopsticks instead of fork and spoon?

Wow, we are talking a similar line and we both were called racists. I think we hit a nerve. Some people don’t want to accept what has happen, you will never change their minds. That is the problem with America today, and it is happening on all sides. I have the same problem with certain issues we all do.
 

They are even defending the part of the government they hate.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

6 hours ago, peenie said:

When I was a sophomore going into my junior year of high school, this was summer of 1982, I was required to read 4 books over the summer, classics:

Oliver Twist, Red Badge of Courage, Huckleberry Finn and.....Catcher in the Rye

Once I reached my junior year I was given was an SAT preparatory guide book and our general English book. Each week we had to learn 50 words from the SAT guide book. We took preparation tests EVERY WEEK so that we could do well on our PSATs.

Now mind you, I went to private school. You can pay for a good education.

But you know what? That same good education could be had for FREE if you live in a good neighborhood. Those neighborhoods were closed to blacks not just due to skin color but because we cannot afford to live in such places. Even if we have the education, the degree, we were not given the jobs as easily. Affirmative action was put in place because despite being qualified women and blacks were being overlooked for jobs and promotions.

That is the systematic racism that prevents a person from being educated enough to be employed enough to move ahead.

Does it mean that things are not greatly improved, yes they are, but it explains why some people are still stuck.

And the government spends far less per pupil on those "good" public schools than they do on inner city schools.

The "good" public schools are good because they are full of kids with good parents who give a sh!t about education.

The bad ones are bad because they are full of kids more interested in earning their gang colors than a diploma, and have little if any real paranting.

It has next to nothing to do with money and everything to do with the community.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

43 minutes ago, peenie said:

Why aren’t Chinese people using forks and spoons? I think forks pick up rice better than chopsticks and spoons pick up soup better than chopsticks? 
 

For one, they do use spoons for soup of course.

For another, they eat differently than we do. They don't each have their own dish to themselves. Everything is served family style, and you have an individual rice bowl. You pluck pieces out of the main dish with the chopsticks and put it in your rice bowl. And it is common to put choice morsels in someone else's bowl to show respect. And yeah, chopsticks do work better for that style of dining, particularly when all your food is designed to be eaten with chopsticks.

In short, it's a cultural thing.

[jonmx 2,202]

2 hours ago, Baker Boy said:

I guess you don’t understand what it is to be financially dependent on the government with no assets to leave. It has been a way of life for generations for some of these people they don’t know anything different. They are the forgotten Americans.

It is how i grew up.  I lived in poverty with a single mom.  I had nothing and was given nothing.  

[avoiding injuries 1,363]

53 minutes ago, peenie said:

Why aren’t Chinese people using forks and spoons? I think forks pick up rice better than chopsticks and spoons pick up soup better than chopsticks? 
 

Don’t forget about the Japanese. I don’t think I could enjoy sushi if I didn’t eat it with chopsticks. 

[KSB2424 3,100]

37 minutes ago, peenie said:

Why are you all discussing blacks as if we’re all living in poverty? Why are you defining us as a group by the lowest of us: the criminal, the unemployed and the welfare mom buying scratch offs??

You brought up poverty as a symptom of institutional racism.  I was just piggy backing on other ethnicities in poverty.  

 

[KSB2424 3,100]

9 minutes ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

For one, they do use spoons for soup of course.

For another, they eat differently than we do. They don't each have their own dish to themselves. Everything is served family style, and you have an individual rice bowl. You pluck pieces out of the main dish with the chopsticks and put it in your rice bowl. And it is common to put choice morsels in someone else's bowl to show respect. And yeah, chopsticks do work better for that style of dining, particularly when all your food is designed to be eaten with chopsticks.

In short, it's a cultural thing.

What a weird question. 

[Baker Boy 1,647]

17 minutes ago, jonmx said:

It is how i grew up.  I lived in poverty with a single mom.  I had nothing and was given nothing.  

Was your skin color holding you holding you back?  Poverty means a different thing to different people. I found out that there were always people who had it worse than I did.

 

so you don’t know what is like to be a descendant of generations of people who have been dependent on the government?

[KSB2424 3,100]

45 minutes ago, jonmx said:

It is how i grew up.  I lived in poverty with a single mom.  I had nothing and was given nothing.  

I think I'm sensing a trend here.  I had a great childhood,  would not change it for the world,  never really knew we were lower middle class.  Not poor in the least, not even trying to fake that, but I grew up in rural North Carolina, I was the first B in K.S.B. to go to college in my family.....ever.  I remember having to go to my friends house to watch Nickelodeon as a kid and then later for TBS / TNT for Braves games.  God Bless Dale Murphy.  We didn't have (afford) cable, my first plane trip was when I was 20 years old and I paid for it myself (college part time job).  Vacations were camping in tents and in a pickup truck camper at Emerald Isle campgrounds on Atlantic Beach.   Small brick ranch house in the bad part of town.  That's not "poor" but we sure as shit didn't have a lot.  

I don't ever remember my parents talking politics, only working 8 to 6.  I was a latch key kid, had to be.  They were better people than I am now. I'm lazy compared to them.  

ETA: my round about point is, man, some people just get frustrated hearing so many excuses.  People grow up poor, there are obstacles, some parents don't have money, etc, etc. etc.  at a certain point it's not racism per se, just getting tired of whining.   

[Strike 4,815]

11 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

so you don’t know what is like to be a descendant of generations of people who have been dependent on the government?

Oh, well there's an easy solution to this problem then.....,

[Baker Boy 1,647]

11 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

You brought up poverty as a symptom of institutional racism.  I was just piggy backing on other ethnicities in poverty.  

 

Now you are playing with words and definitions, the point is it is Racism no matter how you what to sub categorize it.

 

[Brad GLuckman 519]

I recommend watching 13th on Netflix. Yes it is a leftist documentary and it is highly biased, but there are some legitimate points made. I often see people here saying "my ancestors were Italian and were discriminated against. They ended up fine". There is a big difference between being Italian and being black in this country's history and to compare the two is ridiculous. Policies put in place by our government have continually set the black community back and prevented them from prospering.

Surely we can agree on this?

[KSB2424 3,100]

3 minutes ago, Brad GLuckman said:

I recommend watching 13th on Netflix. Yes it is a leftist documentary and it is highly biased, but there are some legitimate points made. I often see people here saying "my ancestors were Italian and were discriminated against. They ended up fine". There is a big difference between being Italian and being black in this country's history and to compare the two is ridiculous. Policies put in place by our government have continually set the black community back and prevented them from prospering.

Surely we can agree on this?

I'll check it out.

[jonmx 2,202]

23 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

Was your skin color holding you holding you back?  Poverty means a different thing to different people. I found out that there were always people who had it worse than I did.

 

so you don’t know what is like to be a descendant of generations of people who have been dependent on the government?

This is about as stupid as one could get.   What a moronic argument.  And i feel i must appologize to morons for making that comparison.  

[Hardcore troubadour 14,164]

4 minutes ago, Brad GLuckman said:

I recommend watching 13th on Netflix. Yes it is a leftist documentary and it is highly biased, but there are some legitimate points made. I often see people here saying "my ancestors were Italian and were discriminated against. They ended up fine". There is a big difference between being Italian and being black in this country's history and to compare the two is ridiculous. Policies put in place by our government have continually set the black community back and prevented them from prospering.

Surely we can agree on this?

At one time.  But not now. This is a great country with lots of opportunity. More than anywhere else on the planet. No one is being held back by this country. People prove it every day. 

[Brad GLuckman 519]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

At one time.  But not now. This is a great country with lots of opportunity. More than anywhere else on the planet. No one is being held back by this country. People prove it every day. 

Just do me a favor and watch the documentary and fact check after. Again, it is highly biased and I definitely rolled my eyes at parts but there a lot of truth to it. You are doing yourself a disservice if you dont seek out all the information that is available.

[Baker Boy 1,647]

7 hours ago, KSB2424 said:

You’re on a tangent.  Helping people who are poor (of any colour) should be done by any caring and first world nation.

I’m asking for examples of SYSTEMIC RACISM. 

 

What is systemic or structural racism?

It is the overarching system of racial bias across all aspects of society, including history, culture, politics, and economics. Other types of racism (i.e. institutional racism) come from it.

 

HTH

[Patented Phil 1,275]

16 minutes ago, Brad GLuckman said:

I recommend watching 13th on Netflix. Yes it is a leftist documentary and it is highly biased, but there are some legitimate points made. I often see people here saying "my ancestors were Italian and were discriminated against. They ended up fine". There is a big difference between being Italian and being black in this country's history and to compare the two is ridiculous. Policies put in place by our government have continually set the black community back and prevented them from prospering.

Surely we can agree on this?

No we can’t agree on this until you cite specific policies.  And preferably something in the recent past.

[KSB2424 3,100]

6 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

What is systemic or structural racism?

It is the overarching system of racial bias across all aspects of society, including history, culture, politics, and economics. Other types of racism (i.e. institutional racism) come from it.

 

HTH

Again, stop with the macro, catch-all, definitions.  

I want 2020 specific examples. Not historical, we know that, duh, I'm talking......TODAY.

What laws (or lack there of), what institutional obstacles are there?  

[KSB2424 3,100]

4 hours ago, KSB2424 said:

I’ll keep a tally

1. school choice

2.  ?

Brad G., maybe you can help me.  I respect your opinion. 

The MDC's, Honcho's and Worms of the bored have yet to do so.  I'm being serious, I know its a hard sale but I'm not being factious. 

 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,164]

10 minutes ago, Brad GLuckman said:

Just do me a favor and watch the documentary and fact check after. Again, it is highly biased and I definitely rolled my eyes at parts but there a lot of truth to it. You are doing yourself a disservice if you dont seek out all the information that is available.

Maybe. But the little I know about it, the prison part, just won’t ring out to me. Poor black people have a right to live in a safe environment too, and unfortunately the people doing the violence in those areas are black men and teenagers. Now you may trace the reason why they behave like this to things prior and I’m willing to acknowledge that, but that doesn’t do much for the people who live there right now. They have every right to feel safe in this country. 

[Baker Boy 1,647]

11 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Again, stop with the macro, catch-all, definitions.  

I want 2020 examples. Not historical, we know that......TODAY.

 

11 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Again, stop with the macro, catch-all, definitions.  

I want 2020 examples. Not historical, we know that......TODAY.

It is the definition I didn’t make it up.!
But that goes against the definition, by definition it includes history. I gave you and example In 2020 but you refuge to accept it. By definition it includes politics.
 

You never told me why Democrats are so against School Choice.

When you are the party of the poor it is to you benefit to keep the voting base poor. And that in a nutshell is the force behind systemic racism in our government. It goes back decades.

[jonmx 2,202]

1 minute ago, Baker Boy said:

 

But that goes against the definition, by definition it includes history. I gave you and example In 2020 but you refuge to accept it. By definition it includes politics.
 

You never told me why Democrats are so against School Choice.

When you are the party of the poor it is to you benefit to keep the voting base poor. And that in a nutshell is the force behind systemic racism in our government. It goes back decades.

Since history can never change, systematic racism by such definition will always exist.  How ridiculously convenient.  

[Baker Boy 1,647]

Just now, jonmx said:

Since history can never change, systematic racism by such definition will always exist.  How ridiculously convenient.  

It is not my definition. He used the term he can’t change the definition.

 

[Baker Boy 1,647]

11 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Brad G., maybe you can help me.  I respect your opinion. 

The MDC's, Honcho's and Worms of the bored have yet to do so.  I'm being serious, I know its a hard sale but I'm not being factious. 

 

Maybe it is because you are being obtuse.

[KSB2424 3,100]

12 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

You never told me why Democrats are so against School Choice.

When you are the party of the poor it is to you benefit to keep the voting base poor. And that in a nutshell is the force behind systemic racism in our government. It goes back decades.

So we are back on school choice again?  Gah its like your go to.

My opinion?  It's complicated.  

I can only speak about my neck of the woods but the school choice here is 1. Public school   2. Charter school (by lottery but free)  3. Private school (pay to play).

Guess what the Charter Schools DON'T have?  Buses or free lunches.  Guess who needs both more than any, the poor.  So what happens, rich kids go to private schools, middle class go to charter schools, and the poor go to public schools.  What a choice.  School choice has only segregated (poor to not) my community more.  Maybe its an unintended consequence but its happening. 

[jonmx 2,202]

4 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

It is not my definition. He used the term he can’t change the definition.

 

It illustrates how stupid the phrase is and how convoluted the meaning of the words have to be stretched to apply it.  When you expand words to mean everything then words become meaningless.