Why would anyone become a teacher now?

[Sean Mooney 1,529]

1 hour ago, Baker Boy said:

 

The answer is school choice!

School choice is something that looks good in theory but falls apart in execution. 

[Hardcore troubadour 13,676]

8 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Is that accurate that most people have to fund their own retirement?

I won't argue with you too much on the teacher pay topic because I've seen over the years that you have a major bias against teachers.

I have a bias against propaganda. Funny Glassdoor Put up the average teacher salary,  but for NYC cops they gave the high and the low. Why is that? 

[Hawkeye21 2,090]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

I have a bias against propaganda. Funny Glassdoor Put up the average teacher salary,  but for NYC cops they gave the high and the low. Why is that? 

 

[Strike 4,454]

9 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Is that accurate that most people have to fund their own retirement?

I won't argue with you too much on the teacher pay topic because I've seen over the years that you have a major bias against teachers.

Yes.  Very few companies offer pensions anymore.  Only in government.  Other people have to contribute to a 401k.  Now, a lot of companies have a match for their 401k's but it's still on the employee to contribute and manage their own retirement.

[Sean Mooney 1,529]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Not everyone has many choices to where they send their kids to school unless they move.  More and more schools have been closing over the years and more and more states are having teacher shortages.  I don't see how this will improve it.

It won't....but it will make a lot of people who support the GOP rich.

 

Charter schools and places like that are money dumps that are stealing money from the general public in plain sight. 

[Hardcore troubadour 13,676]

9 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Is that accurate that most people have to fund their own retirement?

I won't argue with you too much on the teacher pay topic because I've seen over the years that you have a major bias against teachers.

If you don’t have a pension then who do you think is funding someone’s retirement? The individual does, and some places contribute a portion of it. That’s up to the company how much. 

[Hardcore troubadour 13,676]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

Yes.  Very few companies offer pensions anymore.  Only in government.  Other people have to contribute to a 401k.  Now, a lot of companies have a match for their 401k's but it's still on the employee to contribute and manage their own retirement.

Hawkeye doesn’t know this. Yet he yaps. And my time in the private sector didn’t have a match, just a pct of salary. I know it can be different. 

[Baker Boy 1,607]

1 minute ago, Sean Mooney said:

School choice is something that looks good in theory but falls apart in execution. 

Our current public school system is failing. Where and how is School Choice falling apart in execution.

[Hawkeye21 2,090]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Hawkeye doesn’t know this. Yet he yaps. 

We contribute a good amount of money into our employees 401k. They do not have to fund their retirement. 

[RLLD 3,793]

1 minute ago, Baker Boy said:

Our current public school system is failing. Where and how is School Choice falling apart in execution.

It would absolutely work, but it is ideologically divergent from liberal dogma, so it is viewed as evil.

[Hardcore troubadour 13,676]

Just now, Baker Boy said:

Our current public school system is failing. Where and how is School Choice falling apart in execution.

I made a choice where my kids go to school. It’s working out better than expected. The biggest BS is that I still have to pay the same school tax as everyone else. That needs to change. I know I have to pay some, but I should be paying less.  

[Hardcore troubadour 13,676]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

We contribute a good amount of money into our employees 401k. They do not have to fund their retirement. 

More vagueness. Anyway, so what? Everyplace isn’t like you.  

[Hardcore troubadour 13,676]

8 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

School choice is something that looks good in theory but falls apart in execution. 

How would you know? 

[Hawkeye21 2,090]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

More vagueness. Anyway, so what? Everyplace isn’t like you.  

I didn’t say it was or even imply it. 

[Baker Boy 1,607]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

We contribute a good amount of money into our employees 401k. They do not have to fund their retirement. 

How much is a good amount? Is it a contribution match?

[Sean Mooney 1,529]

3 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

Our current public school system is failing. Where and how is School Choice falling apart in execution.

There are plenty of studies that have shown that school choice does not improve scores, education, or anything like that. After Katrina- Louisiana replaced all their schools with charter schools (relatively) and none of the previous problems were fixed. 

 

And really- you could do some of the same things that school choice promotes if people wanted to fight for it in public schools. Like lower student to teacher ratios. 

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

It would absolutely work, but it is ideologically divergent from liberal dogma, so it is viewed as evil.

[Hawkeye21 2,090]

Just now, Baker Boy said:

How much is a good amount? Is it a contribution match?

We contribute a percentage of our profit. 

[Baker Boy 1,607]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

We contribute a percentage of our profit. 

Instead of a bonus?

[Hardcore troubadour 13,676]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

We contribute a percentage of our profit. 

You contribute what your accountant tells you to contribute. Profit. Lol. 

[MDC 6,463]

2 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

WTF is wrong with people?  Why would you think these are smart changes to be made?  No one is going to want to teach in states that start requiring this.

https://twitter.com/AlexDanvers2017/status/1480266895613964291?s=20

It’s all part of the same culture war BS the major parties have been peddling for years. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,320]

2 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

WTF is wrong with people?  Why would you think these are smart changes to be made?  No one is going to want to teach in states that start requiring this.

https://twitter.com/AlexDanvers2017/status/1480266895613964291?s=20

If I could do it all over again, I'd definitely be a teacher... are you kidding me?  You work part-time and get full-time money, pension, great benefits, great work schedule, and you never have to ask for time off and after 5 years, you basically can't ever get fired.  On top of that, you're guaranteed a raise every year.  Yeah, no idea who wouldn't want that job. 

[RLLD 3,793]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

If I could do it all over again, I'd definitely be a teacher... are you kidding me?  You work part-time and get full-time money, pension, great benefits, great work schedule, and you never have to ask for time off and after 5 years, you basically can't ever get fired.  On top of that, you're guaranteed a raise every year.  Yeah, no idea who wouldn't want that job. 

Yes, but there is a wider problem at play.  Disciplining kids is now seen as something one cannot do, so they act like focking idiots.  Causing teachers to leave the profession, which many are doing.  Then we are down to people who have little other choice, but really do not want to be there because the kids get away with everything.

[TBayXXXVII 2,320]

2 hours ago, DonS said:

Where was that list from? 

 

2 hours ago, Fireballer said:

Bump

Looks like Indiana state senate bill.

[TBayXXXVII 2,320]

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Yes, but there is a wider problem at play.  Disciplining kids is now seen as something one cannot do, so they act like focking idiots.  Causing teachers to leave the profession, which many are doing.  Then we are down to people who have little other choice, but really do not want to be there because the kids get away with everything.

There aren't many people leaving teaching jobs, there's a reduction in the number of people entering the field.  Big difference.  The only staffing issues now are covid-based, not system/job based.  I'm sure there's a percentage that leave, but it's not higher than any other profession.  In fact, without knowing the data, I'm willing to bet that the number of teacher who "voluntarily" left the profession (pre-covid), is substantially lower than any other professional discipline.

[Hawkeye21 2,090]

10 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

If I could do it all over again, I'd definitely be a teacher... are you kidding me?  You work part-time and get full-time money, pension, great benefits, great work schedule, and you never have to ask for time off and after 5 years, you basically can't ever get fired.  On top of that, you're guaranteed a raise every year.  Yeah, no idea who wouldn't want that job. 

Holy crap.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,320]

13 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Holy crap.  

In NJ, a first year teacher (average), makes $51k.  Now, that's slightly below the average national salary for first year/post college graduates, who average $55k.  Let me ask you... how many of those other professions do you think only work 180 days?  I'm willing to go out on a limb and say 0.  Also willing to go out on a limb that those other people work 50 more days in the year than teachers.

Of those other professions, how many do you think are getting a PREMIUM medical package where their contribution is only $50 a MONTH?

Of those other professions, how many do you think have complete job security?

Of those other professions, how many do you think have a union backing them?

Of those other professions, how many do you think have a government pension?

Of those other professions, how many do you think get a guaranteed raise every year?

 

When you answer "Virtually none", that's all you need to know.  To note, I'm not asking how many get each one of those... I'm asking you how many of those other professions get ALL of those.

[Hawkeye21 2,090]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

In NJ, a first year teacher (average), makes $51k.  Now, that's slightly below the average national salary for first year/post college graduates, who average $55k.  Let me ask you... how many of those other professions do you think only work 180 days?  I'm willing to go out on a limb and say 0.  Also willing to go out on a limb that those other people work 50 more days in the year than teachers.

Of those other professions, how many do you think are getting a PREMIUM medical package where their contribution is only $50 a MONTH?

Of those other professions, how many do you think have complete job security?

Of those other professions, how many do you think have a union backing them?

Of those other professions, how many do you think have a government pension?

 

When you answer "Virtually none", that's all you need to know.

How many teachers do you know that only work during school hours and do nothing else work related the rest of the time?

[Hardcore troubadour 13,676]

12 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

How many teachers do you know that only work during school hours and do nothing else work related the rest of the time?

So they teach 8 classes a day? If not, what are they doing with that time? Hint: they don’t teach 8 classes a day. And how long is the school day? It’s not 8 hours. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,320]

15 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

How many teachers do you know that only work during school hours and do nothing else work related the rest of the time?

Teachers teach, on average, 5 classes a day at 45 minutes each.  Then, they get a lunch period where they babysit.  In total, that's about 4 hours of actual work... while "at work".  They should put in 4 hours after school each, but they don't.  I'll give them credit for 2 though.  So, they essentially work 6 hours a day, or 30 per week... also known as "part-time".

[Hawkeye21 2,090]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

So they teach 8 classes a day? If not, what are they doing with that time? Hint: they don’t teach 8 classes a day. And how long is the school day? It’s not 8 hours. 

I know what they do.  I am very close to a lot of teachers.  If you think they only work during school hours then there really is no sense in continuing this conversation.

[Hawkeye21 2,090]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Teachers teach, on average, 5 classes a day at 45 minutes each.  Then, they get a lunch period where they babysit.  In total, that's about 4 hours of actual work... while "at work".  They should put in 4 hours after school each, but they don't.  I'll give them credit for 2 though.  So, they essentially work 6 hours a day, or 30 per week... also known as "part-time".

Ok

[Baker Boy 1,607]

46 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

There aren't many people leaving teaching jobs, there's a reduction in the number of people entering the field.  Big difference.  The only staffing issues now are covid-based, not system/job based.  I'm sure there's a percentage that leave, but it's not higher than any other profession.  In fact, without knowing the data, I'm willing to bet that the number of teacher who "voluntarily" left the profession (pre-covid), is substantially lower than any other professional discipline.

You better check that data.

[TBayXXXVII 2,320]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Ok

I'll give you an example, and again, I'm talking about NJ where I live.  The high school I went to, there are 10 periods in a day.  First, 2nd, and 3rd periods are 45 minutes long.  Fourth through eighth are 22 minutes each.  Why?  Because they're lunch periods.  So, if you have lunch 4th period, your next two classes are 5th and 6th, then 7th and 8th.  Then, there's 9th and 10th periods which are 45 minutes.  So, a teacher has to babysit 1 lunch period...22 minutes.  Then, they get 1 "OFF" period and 1 "Prep" period (meaning, no kids/teaching).  That leaves only 5 teaching periods in a day.  So, 5 x 45 = 225 minutes, plus 25 minutes (I'll round up), to 250 minutes of actual teaching in a day.  That's just a tick over 4 hours of actual work.  This isn't an opinion, this is fact.

The school day is approximately 6.5 hours... of which, teachers only "teach" two-thirds of that.  I'll give them 5 hours of teaching a day, that's 25 hours a week.  They should put in 3 hours at home, each day, to equal 40 hours.  The high school school day here ends at 2:10.  That teacher's parking lot is EMPTY at 2:30... except for the teachers who coach or have after hours extracurricular activities (which they get paid separately for).  Teachers in general are home at 3:00 every day.  For middle school it's probably 3:30 and 4:00 for elementary... but remember, they finish about a half hour later because they start a half hour later.  Their days aren't longer.

Yeah, sign me up for a 30 hour work week... 40 hours if you want, for only 180 days (not 250).

[TBayXXXVII 2,320]

2 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

You better check that data.

Got a link?

[Hawkeye21 2,090]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I'll give you an example, and again, I'm talking about NJ where I live.  The high school I went to, there are 10 periods in a day.  First, 2nd, and 3rd periods are 45 minutes long.  Fourth through eighth are 22 minutes each.  Why?  Because they're lunch periods.  So, if you have lunch 4th period, your next two classes are 5th and 6th, then 7th and 8th.  Then, there's 9th and 10th periods which are 45 minutes.  So, a teacher has to babysit 1 lunch period...22 minutes.  Then, they get 1 "OFF" period and 1 "Prep" period (meaning, no kids/teaching).  That leaves only 5 teaching periods in a day.  So, 5 x 45 = 225 minutes, plus 25 minutes (I'll round up), to 250 minutes of actual teaching in a day.  That's just a tick over 4 hours of actual work.  This isn't an opinion, this is fact.

The school day is approximately 6.5 hours... of which, teachers only "teach" two-thirds of that.  I'll give them 5 hours of teaching a day, that's 25 hours a week.  They should put in 3 hours at home, each day, to equal 40 hours.  The high school school day here ends at 2:10.  That teacher's parking lot is EMPTY at 2:30... except for the teachers who coach or have after hours extracurricular activities (which they get paid separately for).  Teachers in general are home at 3:00 every day.  For middle school it's probably 3:30 and 4:00 for elementary... but remember, they finish about a half hour later because they start a half hour later.  Their days aren't longer.

Yeah, sign me up for a 30 hour work week... 40 hours if you want, for only 180 days (not 250).

I can't imagine you actually know a teacher personally based on the info you keep giving.  I hope it's that we just have different experiences with teachers and the teachers in your area do very little based on what you're saying.

[TBayXXXVII 2,320]

18 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I can't imagine you actually know a teacher personally based on the info you keep giving.  I hope it's that we just have different experiences with teachers and the teachers in your area do very little based on what you're saying.

I know plenty.  They b!tch and complain about the dumbest crap.  When I call them out on it, they shut up pretty quickly.  For some reason, they think only their job is hard.  Every job comes with challenges.  Look, I'm not saying they have a cake walk.  I'm saying that teachers are no different than any other profession in the sense of what they have to "deal with", it's just in a different form.  They seem to feel that they're the only ones who have it rough.  The key difference in the end is the perks/benefits of their job that others don't get.  Teachers by far, have the best perks.  The biggest that they get to work 7 less weeks a year.  The next biggest is the great medical plan at virtually no cost.  These are the types of things that CEO's get, not they average worker, which teachers get Day 1.

[Mike Honcho 4,489]

Why would anyone become a teacher now? 

Well, for one is seems they have lifted the restrictions against teaching the light-hearted side of Nazi's now.   

[Utilit99 4,099]

9 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Why would anyone become a teacher now? 

Well, for one is seems they have lifted the restrictions against teaching the light-hearted side of Nazi's now.   

Biden Exposed 101 

[Hardcore troubadour 13,676]

56 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I know what they do.  I am very close to a lot of teachers.  If you think they only work during school hours then there really is no sense in continuing this conversation.

Did I say that? Just pointing out what constitutes a work day. It ain’t 8 hours. 

[Hardcore troubadour 13,676]

NYC spends 28k a year per student. Tell us more about schools being underfunded.