LOTR Aragorn is now black. Is this more blackwashing?

[Cdub100 3,824]

 

[edjr 6,578]

JFC  

[DonS 3,291]

If I remember correctly, Aragorn (aka Strider) isn't trusted by folks and is shunned because he is a mysterious ranger (or whatever).

Will this new Aragorn claim the distrust is due to RACISM???

[Mike Honcho 5,072]

the amount of stuff y'all get worked up about...

[Cloaca du jour 2,147]

What about 007?

[Engorgeous George 2,110]

Well in the coming remake of Roots Kunta Kinte will be played by Justin Beiber, so there is that.  He nailed the audition with his improve of: "Toby, or not  Toby, that is the question".

[Hawkeye21 2,378]

So what

[seafoam1 2,794]

56 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

the amount of stuff y'all get worked up about...

I see it more as you getting all "worked up" about someone calling changing a white movie character to a black character stupid. Which it is. That's about as petty as you can get.

[jerryskids 6,535]

2 hours ago, Cloaca du jour said:

What about 007?

She can be any color.  

[wiffleball 4,788]

I'm not saying I'm gay, but if I were, its Aragon all the way.

 

Man crush. 

[nobody 2,546]

Why do we care about black actors and actresses getting these jobs.  Hollywood kept saying they wanted to make sure there was racial equity in these roles.  If someone wants to give away his or her job, why do you care.  

I wish they'd tackle looksism and say they want to give ugly people some of these roles.  I might have a shot at one of these cushy jobs.

[Blue Horseshoe 348]

3 hours ago, Cdub100 said:

 

 

 

Is Aragorn Black In The Source Material?

Not really, but it's never clearly stated, and it's certainly possible. In the Lord of the Rings, Tolkien only vaguely describes Aragorn's physical appearance: ...a shaggy head of dark hair flecked with grey, and in a pale stern face a pair of keen grey eyes.

But we know that Aragorn is one of the Dúnedain, and they are described in this way in the Silmarillion: ...and they were tall, taller than the tallest of the sons of Middle Earth; and the light of their eyes was like bright stars. But their numbers increased only slowly in the land, for their daughters and sons were born to them, fairer than their fathers, yet their children were few.

Based on both descriptions all we can deduce is that Aragorn is tall, fair, and has beautiful eyes. However, if we're willing to accept the works of the author's son, Christopher Tolkien, as lore-compliant, then we do have sources that suggest black people existed in Middle Earth for a very long time. As Christopher writes in The Peoples of Middle Earth, one of the tribes of the Edain (prehistoric men) was racially diverse: There were fair-haired men and women among the Folk of Bëor, but most of them had brown hair (going usually with brown eyes), and many were less fair in skin, some indeed being swarthy.

It could therefore be possible that one or more of Aragorn's ancestors could have come from the House of Bëor and through them, he inherited a darker skin tone. Which would be uncommon for one of the Dúnedain, but not impossible based on the source material.

https://earlygame.com/entertainment/aragorn-black

 

*****

I don't have a problem with Aragorn being "black"  It's not clearly defined according to Tolkien. Odds are, given Tolkien's background, when he wrote it, it was likely assumed. The LOTR trilogy is actually a pretty poorly written series. It's very flawed. The Hobbit is a better example of Tolkien's skill as a writer. 

Now if someone remade the LOTR Trilogy, and then all the Hobbits were black, that would be a problem (Tolkien clearly stated that the Hobbits and The Shire were supposed to represent Britain during WW2)

I have a larger issue with something like Danai Gurira playing Richard III. When you start messing with actual history and real life people who actually walked this Earth at some point, then it's a problem. 

This is like the Bud Light and Target situation, it's not so much the one event or situation, but more of a tipping point to long standing acrimony and tension over a large general issue spread out over many years. 

I used to have someone who worked for me, this was long ago. At work, I've always mandated people call each other by their last names. She changed her last name because she got divorced. Her then husband cheated on her and ran off with her "best friend" So sometimes people at my company would still, with no ill will, call her by the last name they used for a long time before. At some point, the woman snapped and yelled at someone who didn't use the new last name. The person who did it, it wasn't them specifically. It was the build up of many people doing it over months, from time to time and certainly it wasn't an every day thing, and obviously the daily stress and pain from divorce, splitting finances, stuff with kids, changing living situations, losing routines, being lonely, etc, etc. 

I think a large part of the "tension" is built around "What's Next?"

If you don't push back now, what else will change and how far will they go? 

Will someone redo Princess Diana and her tragedy and then suddenly make her a former MI6 agent who is also transgender, black and in a wheelchair? 

Basic boundaries. Keep the LGBT stuff away from public schools and specifically very young kids and 99 percent of the conflict goes away. 

Keep "black washing" away from real life historical figures and real life people and 99 percent of this conflict goes away. 

The major driver of antagonism is the woke SJW's have no respect for basic boundaries. It's a constant encroachment and it pisses a lot of people off. They don't hate you because you are black or LGBT or "different", they hate you because you keep instigating and prodding everyone around you for a straight up confrontation and fight. 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

Boycott Magic the Gathering? Oh my bad this is LOTR

Nerds.

The right is gonna run out of sh1t to boycott.

[Engorgeous George 2,110]

Been a half century since I read Tolkien.  I don't recall if it was in the Lord of the Rings or the Silmarillion but there were extensive descriptions of the various races and peoples and the the author had a specific vision as to Aragorn and his sires.  Could he have been seen as otherwise, yes, but he was not.  Do I really care how he is concieved now, no.  Skin color has nothing to do with his character and it is his character which makes Aragorn who he is.

[Blue Horseshoe 348]

19 minutes ago, nobody said:

Why do we care about black actors and actresses getting these jobs.  Hollywood kept saying they wanted to make sure there was racial equity in these roles.  If someone wants to give away his or her job, why do you care.  

I wish they'd tackle looksism and say they want to give ugly people some of these roles.  I might have a shot at one of these cushy jobs.

 

 

 

In principle, once you move outside of historical figures and real life people, I actually agree with you.

But it has to work BOTH WAYS. Whatever is the "standard" needs to go in both directions. I'm OK with the "standard" being one way, or the other, as long as it's CONSISTENT. 

But it's not consistent. 

If someone offered Ming Na a cool 20 million dollars to play Margaret Thatcher in a TV show, do you think she'd turn that down? But she'll pipe up when she wanted the Ghost In The Shell role for herself. And I get her conflict. There are so very few leading roles for Asian women to headline a big budget film. So to see one of the few that might be a financial success go to a white woman is probably a tough thing to swallow. 

I'd prefer if it was just honest - "I want the role for myself. The character was Asian in the anime and by the original writer and I'm an Asian actress who would be short listed for the role"  If Ming Na had just said that, I'd respect that position. 

Jodie Foster turned down a HUGE payday for Hannibal, the long awaited sequel to Silence Of The Lambs. We are talking a massive amount of money. But she didn't like the script and she felt there was nowhere left to take her character. Later she said she didn't really like the new films but didn't want to criticize the new actors, because they were just doing their jobs. IMHO, Foster put her money where her mouth was and, at least there, it was consistent. 

The problem with "equity" is you can keep parsing down to new and new subgroups that feel aggrieved. It's endless. 

Braveheart was a huge awards winner. It was not historically accurate. But Mel Gibson and Randall Wallace never said that it was historically accurate. They were upfront about it. The Woman King, however, tried to sell itself as actual history. 

1) Just be upfront

2) Have any "standard" you want, but be consistent about it, even to your own detriment

3) Make the project into something exceptional for the audience to watch, don't rest on pure identity politics as the only driver for why something is being made or changed

Do these things and 99.99999 percent of all problems with this goes away. 

[RogerDodger 797]

Wait one second, foking Irish man playing Braveheart the Scottish warrior?!??!???!    

That's it.  I've had enough of this chit. 

[Reality 3,092]

26 minutes ago, RogerDodger said:

Wait one second, foking Irish man playing Braveheart the Scottish warrior?!??!???!    

That's it.  I've had enough of this chit. 

Quite the story, Mel's mom was Irish, Dad was American born to Irish parents and Mel grew up in Australia. Not sure how anybody categorizes that one...

[jerryskids 6,535]

1 hour ago, Blue Horseshoe said:

 

 

 

In principle, once you move outside of historical figures and real life people, I actually agree with you.

But it has to work BOTH WAYS. Whatever is the "standard" needs to go in both directions. I'm OK with the "standard" being one way, or the other, as long as it's CONSISTENT. 

But it's not consistent. 

If someone offered Ming Na a cool 20 million dollars to play Margaret Thatcher in a TV show, do you think she'd turn that down? But she'll pipe up when she wanted the Ghost In The Shell role for herself. And I get her conflict. There are so very few leading roles for Asian women to headline a big budget film. So to see one of the few that might be a financial success go to a white woman is probably a tough thing to swallow. 

I'd prefer if it was just honest - "I want the role for myself. The character was Asian in the anime and by the original writer and I'm an Asian actress who would be short listed for the role"  If Ming Na had just said that, I'd respect that position. 

Jodie Foster turned down a HUGE payday for Hannibal, the long awaited sequel to Silence Of The Lambs. We are talking a massive amount of money. But she didn't like the script and she felt there was nowhere left to take her character. Later she said she didn't really like the new films but didn't want to criticize the new actors, because they were just doing their jobs. IMHO, Foster put her money where her mouth was and, at least there, it was consistent. 

The problem with "equity" is you can keep parsing down to new and new subgroups that feel aggrieved. It's endless. 

Braveheart was a huge awards winner. It was not historically accurate. But Mel Gibson and Randall Wallace never said that it was historically accurate. They were upfront about it. The Woman King, however, tried to sell itself as actual history. 

1) Just be upfront

2) Have any "standard" you want, but be consistent about it, even to your own detriment

3) Make the project into something exceptional for the audience to watch, don't rest on pure identity politics as the only driver for why something is being made or changed

Do these things and 99.99999 percent of all problems with this goes away. 

I don't particularly care about real life characters either, but I'd like to see it both ways.  Years ago, an early intro to wokeism for me was from my daughter -- in describing characters in a book (she aspires to right fiction novels), she mentioned that she couldn't write an Asian or Black character because that would be "cultural appropriation."  What now?  I had never heard that phrase.  We are the great American melting pot, our job is to culturally appropriate and make the sum greater than the parts.  Nope, I was told, it's wrong -- how dare a white person presume to empathize with the plight of a minority?!.  I much later learned that this was part of the Tumblr teenage white girl echo chamber which also gave us 90721432 genders.

Either we appropriate both ways or we don't.  Unfortunately we are firmly moving towards "don't", and we have the Left to thank for starting us down that path.  Good job, good effort, hopey changey!

[Blue Horseshoe 348]

1 hour ago, GutterBoy said:

The right is gonna run out of sh1t to boycott.

 

 

 

One of the largest exporters of enslaved Africans

Dahomey first rose to power as a centralized and militarized kingdom in West Africa in the 17th century. It wasn't until the 18th century, during the peak of the Atlantic slave trade, that the kingdom expanded its might. In 1727, Dahomey conquered the coastal Kingdom of Hueda, taking control of the port city Ouidah. This would become its main base for trade with European powers, and marked the start of its active participation in slave trade.

Dahomey soon became a key player in the trafficking of Africans, which proved to be one of the most profitable exports at the time.... Armed with muskets they obtained from foreign nations through their export of slaves and other goods, Dahomey's armies captured people from nearby kingdoms and villages to fuel their supply of slaves. Dahomey's involvement in the slave trade was fueled by European demand for cheap labor....

....Historians estimate that nearly 1 million enslaved Africans were put on ships to the Americas in Ouidah between 1659 and 1863, making the port city the second largest supplier of African captives to the trade.

https://www.insider.com/the-woman-king-true-history-agojie-dahomey-slave-trade-2022-9

 

Viola Davis Admits ‘The Woman King’ Is Largely Fictionalized After Outcry Over Historical Inaccuracy

....“The Woman King” is loosely based on the all-female warrior unit that protected the West African kingdom of Dahomey during the 17th to 19th centuries. ...There are fans online who are boycotting the film due to the fact it doesn’t address the Dahomey kingdom’s involvement in slavery....Speaking to Variety about the fine line between historical accuracy and entertainment, the actress admitted that “most of the story is fictionalized.”

“....They were looking to find some way to keep their civilization and kingdom alive,” Davis said when asked about the X#XBoycottWomanKing movement on Twitter. “.... Most of the story is fictionalized....We are now what we call ‘edu-tainment.’ It’s history but we have to take license....If we just told a history lesson, which we very well could have, that would be a documentary....Unfortunately, people wouldn’t be in the theatres doing the same thing we saw this weekend. We didn’t want to shy away from the truth. The history is massive and there are truths on that that are there....”

https://etcanada.com/news/930111/viola-davis-admits-the-woman-king-is-largely-fictionalized-after-outcry-over-historical-inaccuracy/

 

******

Here is what I'm talking about with regards to "consistency" 

Viola Davis cannot gaslight the general moviegoing audience by saying if they don't see the film, they are participating in open bigotry and misogyny, and that it's an outright refusal to honor black women in history while also admitting the "history" presented is not accurate. Not even close. 

"You are a bigot for not honoring the deeds of black women in history where we just made a lot of the sh*t up!" 

How exactly does that work? 

You cannot openly question the "authenticity" of your audience while simultaneously promote something that is miles away from being actually authentic against real history. 

They don't "want to shy away from the truth" but the only rationalization is that "there are truths on that that are there"  Meaning what exactly? 

You can't just pretend that a real life group and open militia in actual recorded history just didn't do their part to drive forward close to a MILLION slaves to foreign lands to be abused and treated like pure cattle. For profit. They literally sold their own people. But Viola Davis wants to pretend it doesn't matter and it's not worth it to talk about anything outside of "edu-tainment" 

[Drizzay 698]

Nerds!

[seafoam1 2,794]

I just won't watch it. I'll stick to the original. And you all can enjoy The Wiz too for all I care. I won't promote that shlt. 

[RLLD 4,143]

17 hours ago, Mike Honcho said:

the amount of stuff y'all get worked up about...

I know right? Like what is next? Tearning down statues we dont like?

[Mike Honcho 5,072]

2 hours ago, RLLD said:

I know right? Like what is next? Tearning down statues we dont like?

Exactly the same!  

 

[Engorgeous George 2,110]

I'm hoping Denzel Washington gets the role of Robert E. Lee in Disney's musical adaptation of Birth of a Nation.

[RLLD 4,143]

7 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Exactly the same!  

 

Hmmmm, interesting that you would make that assertion. 

[wiffleball 4,788]

Should make Black Panther Albino. 

[BillyKing 83]

Never watched lord of the rings but it’s common nowadays for Hollywood to blackwash already established white characters. They won’t ever dare do that to another race 

[wiffleball 4,788]

The Orcs were clearly black. 

[seafoam1 2,794]

2 hours ago, wiffleball said:

The Orcs were clearly black. 

[Blue Horseshoe 348]

On 5/30/2023 at 12:19 PM, Hawkeye21 said:

So what

 

 

[wiffleball 4,788]

Did you know Vikings never had horns on their helmets.  

[seafoam1 2,794]

25 minutes ago, Blue Horseshoe said:

 

 

Violence is in their blood.

[frank 2,276]

5 hours ago, wiffleball said:

Did you know Vikings never had horns on their helmets.  

Never won a Super Bowl either. 

[Engorgeous George 2,110]

Maybe those black vikings were simply badly in need of a bath.

[seafoam1 2,794]

2 hours ago, Engorgeous George said:

Maybe those black vikings were simply badly in need of a bath.

Instead of growing food to eat, they desire to steal it from the productive people. Black Viking equity. 

[Mookz 1,337]

Lot more bikes have turned up missing in Middle Earth lately.