Dynasty: Malik Nabers is better than Marvin Harrison Jr

[nobody 2,461]

It's early to be talking rookies, but it has to be said. 

I've watched a lot of both and what I see is Nabers with elite short area quickness, elite run after catch, and elite separation.  Then I watch Marvin Harrison and I see a guy with an elite release, but doesn't really get separation, doesn't get any YAC because every catch he makes is with a guy within a yard of him, and then he immediately goes down because he doesn't want to get hurt.

If his name wasn't Marvin Harrison Jr, Malik Nabers would be the number 1 receiver in this draft.  

As an aside, I like that other Ohio St receiver a lot... Emeka Egbuka.  That guy can run a route.

I'd rank them:

Nabers, MHJ, Odunze, Egbuka.  

I like receivers with size that can get open.  That's what the NFL is about these days.

[JagFan 128]

For me, a lot will factor on where these guys land and the QB situation.  I’d agree that Nabors could be the best of the group.

[Kopy 534]

I have them at 1a and 1b. The only 2 In my tier 1.

Egbuka is in my tier 2 with Odunze. The only 2 in my tier 2.

Tier 3 is the one that's really jumbled up, and seems fluid at the moment.  The big question for me coming up is. Would I want to bypass Bowers for anyone in that tier 3?

 

[makindollaz 51]

2 hours ago, JagFan said:

For me, a lot will factor on where these guys land and the QB situation.  I’d agree that Nabors could be the best of the group.

Normally I would agree, but Q. Johnson makes me hesitant to put too much stock in the QB.

After Mike Williams went down, I thought Johnson would be the best rookie WR in 2023 in large part because of Herbert and playing opposite Allen, but I missed big time on that one.

[TBayXXXVII 2,390]

24 minutes ago, makindollaz said:

Normally I would agree, but Q. Johnson makes me hesitant to put too much stock in the QB.

After Mike Williams went down, I thought Johnson would be the best rookie WR in 2023 in large part because of Herbert and playing opposite Allen, but I missed big time on that one.

I think the biggest issue is that none of will ever and can never, know how quickly they pickup and how well these guys learn, the playbook.  Knowing where and when to be at a spot is more important that actually catching the ball.  The QB will never throw it to a spot unless they believe the WR will be there.

[jrokh 596]

PFF has Nabers ranked #1 with a 93.3 grade and Harrison ranked 9th with an 89.9 grade, so hardly breaking news. Harrison does have 4 inches on him, so we'll see. The bloodline angle also helps Harrison's draft prospects, for better or worse. Combine will likely be the final arbiter (for the draft)...

[nobody 2,461]

1 hour ago, jrokh said:

PFF has Nabers ranked #1 with a 93.3 grade and Harrison ranked 9th with an 89.9 grade, so hardly breaking news. Harrison does have 4 inches on him, so we'll see. The bloodline angle also helps Harrison's draft prospects, for better or worse. Combine will likely be the final arbiter (for the draft)...

I don't even look at PFF.  I remember reading some articles years ago saying that receiver from TCU named Josh Doctson and Corey Coleman were the best receivers when I was watching Michael Thomas and thinking why isn't he first.  Never read them since.

[nobody 2,461]

2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I think the biggest issue is that none of will ever and can never, know how quickly they pickup and how well these guys learn, the playbook.  Knowing where and when to be at a spot is more important that actually catching the ball.  The QB will never throw it to a spot unless they believe the WR will be there.

Quentin Johnson can't catch either.

[nobody 2,461]

The weird thing is I keep seeing that he's some elite separator.

What I see is a guy that got open on a pick and a guy that got open by getting his body into a smaller DB and using his forearm to create separation instead of his footwork and then I see a guy who's absolutely blanketed by a corner and uses elite body control to contort himself into position to make a great catch.  I guess he can be a back shoulder/slant specialist.  

Egbuka and guys like Ladd McConkey close space and use a sharp change of direction to get separation.  That translates to NFL.

[LaChup 215]

What did the coach say to Malik when he was arguing with the teammate standing next to him?

"Be good Nabers!"

[LaChup 215]

Just now, LaChup said:

What did the coach say to Malik when he was arguing with the teammate standing next to him?

"Be good Nabers!"

[polecatt 471]

I would listen to what Steve Smith says on this one.

I know he's rated the WR prospects sometimes in the past. He's made some unlikely calls too.

He said little known Cooper Kupp would be the best WR from the 2017 draft, despite being a 3rd round pick.

He said that Justin Jefferson was the best despite being the 5th WR taken in the loaded 2020 draft.

He was also one of the first to talk about Puka Nacua.

I would look for Steve's call on this one before next year's draft and take it seriously

[LaChup 215]

Steve Smith also said Jerry Jeudy was a tier 3 receiver. And he was right it turns out. You are onto something.

[TBayXXXVII 2,390]

2 hours ago, nobody said:

Quentin Johnson can't catch either.

That may be.  I haven't watched many Chargers games.

[WhiteWonder 2,476]

8 hours ago, JagFan said:

For me, a lot will factor on where these guys land and the QB situation.  I’d agree that Nabors could be the best of the group.

if you're looking for a deciding factor between two guys you are torn on.... otherwise, we've seen plenty of receivers go to teams with big time QBs and it doesn't translate. We've also seen plenty of examples like Garrett Wilson looking amazing despite a ---- show QB situation. 

[jrokh 596]

4 hours ago, nobody said:

I don't even look at PFF.  I remember reading some articles years ago saying that receiver from TCU named Josh Doctson and Corey Coleman were the best receivers when I was watching Michael Thomas and thinking why isn't he first.  Never read them since.

Not really the point. You can take or leave PFF or whatever publication, the fact remains that major publications, including the one NFL Teams rely on (since they pay them for their data and analysis), already have Nabers ranked higher than Harrison...

[nobody 2,461]

55 minutes ago, jrokh said:

Not really the point. You can take or leave PFF or whatever publication, the fact remains that major publications, including the one NFL Teams rely on (since they pay them for their data and analysis), already have Nabers ranked higher than Harrison...

Cool so I guess everyone agrees Nabers is better than Harrison.  My bad.

[LaChup 215]

Love Thy Nabers

[LaChup 215]

I hope the Jets draft him so he can be Mr. Rodgers' Nabers.

[LaChup 215]

Or maybe Philly so he can go to the City of Naberly Love.

[nobody 2,461]

On 12/27/2023 at 2:47 PM, nobody said:

Cool so I guess everyone agrees Nabers is better than Harrison.  My bad.

Wait.  Turns out everyone thinks Harrison is better than Nabers.  

It's always with the most dangerous of analysis.  He's just amazing.  He's a generational talent.  

The best I heard is that he has amazing body control which I agree with, but today's game is about getting open, and less about trying to make some amazing catch with a defender all over the receiver.

[Maximum Overkill 1,363]

Malik Nabers is better than Marvin Harrison Jr

 

NO!!!!! 

But he is going to be a stud

[weepaws 3,005]

6 hours ago, nobody said:

Wait.  Turns out everyone thinks Harrison is better than Nabers.  

It's always with the most dangerous of analysis.  He's just amazing.  He's a generational talent.  

The best I heard is that he has amazing body control which I agree with, but today's game is about getting open, and less about trying to make some amazing catch with a defender all over the receiver.

Soon we will know of the truth.  

[cmh6476 918]

will either of them be available at #32?

[Maximum Overkill 1,363]

27 minutes ago, cmh6476 said:

will either of them be available at #32?

Why? You have Kadarius Toney 

[jrokh 596]

47 minutes ago, cmh6476 said:

will either of them be available at #32?

Unlikely either makes out of the top 10, unless they rank the 40

[nobody 2,461]

Nice to see the experts catching up.

Only a few months late.

[Gepetto 1,192]

I recently saw a highlight of Nabers. His breakaway speed after the catch was astonishing; he just ran away before a defensive guy that was close could even attempt to tackle him.

[Maximum Overkill 1,363]

1 hour ago, nobody said:

Nice to see the experts catching up.

Only a few months late.

Still no, he's not as polished as Harrison but damn good. Both will be total studs. 

[jrokh 596]

All 3 of them could be studs. The draft could go QB 1,2,3, and WR 4,5,6, although minny might've thrown a wrench in that plan...

[jrokh 596]

Nabers just posted a 4.35 40 and a '42 inch vertical at LSU's pro-day. Both are elite to near-elite scores. Nabers solidifying his 1b status to MHJ 1a...

https://x.com/Kat_Terrell/status/1773052360396292255?s=20

 

 

 

[Maximum Overkill 1,363]

31 minutes ago, jrokh said:

Nabers just posted a 4.35 40 and a '42 inch vertical at LSU's pro-day. Both are elite to near-elite scores. Nabers solidifying his 1b status to MHJ 1a...

https://x.com/Kat_Terrell/status/1773052360396292255?s=20

 

 

 

As for someone holding 1.02 in a dynasty rookie draft, I'm extremely excited. 

[Ray_T 718]

On 12/26/2023 at 10:22 PM, nobody said:

It's early to be talking rookies, but it has to be said. 

I've watched a lot of both and what I see is Nabers with elite short area quickness, elite run after catch, and elite separation.  Then I watch Marvin Harrison and I see a guy with an elite release, but doesn't really get separation, doesn't get any YAC because every catch he makes is with a guy within a yard of him, and then he immediately goes down because he doesn't want to get hurt.

If his name wasn't Marvin Harrison Jr, Malik Nabers would be the number 1 receiver in this draft.  

As an aside, I like that other Ohio St receiver a lot... Emeka Egbuka.  That guy can run a route.

I'd rank them:

Nabers, MHJ, Odunze, Egbuka.  

I like receivers with size that can get open.  That's what the NFL is about these days.

well, its funny.  the scouting reports say Harrison, but when I actually read the scouting report the one on Nabers actually looks more desireable in almost all aspects.

major difference is nabers will freelance sometimes and go off his route.    Harrison is more of a route runner.    but will also sometimes make body catches.(negative)

 

[Ray_T 718]

scouting report I'm looking at:  

Harrison: 

strengths

explosion off the line is incredible.   immediately handfights at the point of release and cleanly pushes around to get immediate separation. (translation, you wont be able to jam him at the line)

Never plays a bad portion of the route staying constantly focused on taking good angles and getting to soft spots in coverage where he can easily have open space to make receptions and work his way downfield.

gets to top speed quickly

plays and tracks the ball well

Weaknesses:

frame not particularly rocked up or noteworthy.   Not overly muscular and still occasionally gets corralled by weak tackle attempts.

does not operate well as a blocker

body catches too often and it can prevent him from translating to his after catch ability quickly.

[Ray_T 718]

Nabers

is electric.  burst off the ball and out of breaks could leave smoke rings and leaves defenders gasping for oxygen.

also smart.   sets up opponents with varied releases and altered gaits to leave them vulnerable on critical downs to move the sticks or in the red zone.

accelerates in a blink and can beat corners over top simply with his straight line speed.

shows great quickness and balance with swift, sure cuts to create space on short and intermediate routes and vs zone coverage

just as effective on sweeps and reverses (can run the ball)

can move around the formation

Weaknesses:   there were a couple of key drops on his tape vs alabama and Texas A&M but those looked like he was planning his next move before the ball arrived rather than securing the catch.

can be a bit of a freelancer as a route runner. which may take time for his QB to become comfortable with.

 

[Ray_T 718]

bottom line, Nabers is more like Deebo.  Harrison is more like AJ green (scouting comparable not mine)

[Maximum Overkill 1,363]

3 hours ago, Ray_T said:

bottom line, Nabers is more like Deebo.  Harrison is more like AJ green (scouting comparable not mine)

I agree with the Harrison comp for sure.

Nabers just blew a 4.35, I think Deebo ran 4.48. Nabers can do it all, he'll be more of a target monger than Deebo. My comp would be Jamar Chase or OBJ, oddly enough both from LSU but all with very similar profiles. 

[Ray_T 718]

1 hour ago, Maximum Overkill said:

I agree with the Harrison comp for sure.

Nabers just blew a 4.35, I think Deebo ran 4.48. Nabers can do it all, he'll be more of a target monger than Deebo. My comp would be Jamar Chase or OBJ, oddly enough both from LSU but all with very similar profiles. 

I think that was more a stylistic comparable moreso than an actual comparable.

he does run sweeps and reverses like Deebo would but he doesnt lineup as a RB like Deebo would (though he may be capable of this)

based on the scouting report his pass catching ability looks like it may be better than what deebos is.    Hes a lot faster than Deebo ever was.

[Maximum Overkill 1,363]

5 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

I think that was more a stylistic comparable moreso than an actual comparable.

he does run sweeps and reverses like Deebo would but he doesnt lineup as a RB like Deebo would (though he may be capable of this)

based on the scouting report his pass catching ability looks like it may be better than what deebos is.    Hes a lot faster than Deebo ever was.

What's in the water at LSU?

All they do is produce WR studs.

[nobody 2,461]

Something tells me Harrison is going to all of the sudden be motivated to hold a workout now that people are waking up to Nabers.