Justin Herbert wide receivers

[kcBlitzkrieg 29]

1 hour ago, Ray_T said:

well, its him and McConkey who will be 1-2 (in my opinion)   

Chark has an outside chance but I think they want McConkey to beat him out.   but as a rookie sometimes it takes time for that to play out.

 

You mean beat him out for Herbert's preferred target / Keenan replacement right?  Ladd and Chark have both been running with the ones, two different positions in the offense.  

[GobbleDog 914]

8 minutes ago, kcBlitzkrieg said:

RBs history coming of achilles is very poor, not like a QB coming back.

Death nail for Rbs, but I can't find much data on Qb's suffering a fully torn Achilles.  All I found from Google is 1993 Dan Marino. Came back the next year and threw 4,400+ yds and 30 Tds. Though his next five years weren't very good.

I think we're kind of in uncharted territory here. It'll be interesting to see how Rodgers and Cousins perform.

[kcBlitzkrieg 29]

Yes..... interesting comparison this year for Cousins & Rodgers.  Cousins tear was his plant foot, Rodgers his non-plant foot.

[weepaws 2,963]

Not really interested and in either one.  But we’ll see. 

[Ray_T 713]

33 minutes ago, kcBlitzkrieg said:

 

You mean beat him out for Herbert's preferred target / Keenan replacement right?  Ladd and Chark have both been running with the ones, two different positions in the offense.  

I dont think Chark is good enough to be a WR1.   while the talent is there, his route running on some routes still needs work.   What he does he does fairly well but he still struggles on certain routes.    he is more likely to be a good WR2 if he gets his act together.   he has had a 1000 yard season in the past and has played well in spurts but has also been woefully inconsistent.     

right now I think still hes mostly insurance in the sense they can play him if McConkey isnt where he needs to be or someone gets hurt.   Like I said earlier whoever is gonna be a top 2 WR on this team needs to beat him out.   I dont think the team wants him to win the battle unless he comes in and blows the doors off himself.   They want McConkey to do this.  They drafted him, hes Their guy.

 

either way, there are likely 2 fantasy relevant WR on this team.   I suspect Chark isnt one of them.  I think it will be Palmer and McConkey.

 

[GobbleDog 914]

42 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

They want McConkey to do this.  They drafted him, hes Their guy.

Here's what college scout guru Nystrom had to say about him:

That kid rolls out of bed getting separation. He's open more than seven-eleven, as the kids say. And he's the inverse of Keon Coleman, who is the can't get separation guy, but gets downfield and out-jump you. Where as with McConkey, it's 'I'm separating from you and I'm going to make myself available to the quarterback right away.' I love this fit with the Chargers. McConkey became the wide receiver one on that team the moment the card was submitted. Now, of course, it's a run first offense. So they're going to run on early downs. But the thing is, and the reason that they were attracted to McConkey, it's not just to address their terrible wide receiver room. It's also because of the constitution of their entire offensive philosophy, which is, we get closer to the sticks on the early downs - then we need efficiency guys in order to convert those third downs. That is Ladd McConkey. He will get open. McConkey one on one and man coverage is shaking his dude, and then Herbert is hitting him on the hands and getting first downs.

One of the craziest stats I pulled from this past draft class. Last season, more than 80% of balls that left the quarterback's hands which headed in McConkey's direction became receptions. I'm not even talking chartered as catchable. And this was not on the spoon fed targets that a guy like Corley got. McConkey's 12.2 adot was the exact same as Malik Nabers. Last season, McConkey finished with 3.26 yards per route run which was number four among FBS prospects in this class. People were tossing out "Oh, he's just a slot." No, he wasn't. At Georgia, he played 80% of his snaps on the boundary in a twelve-personnel offense. And hello, he's now going to a twelve-personnel offense under Jim Harbaugh and Greg Roman. He's going to be an outside receiver. The guy I compared him to is Jordan Addison, and I think you're going to see a similar sort of deal. The efficiency thing, getting open and then he converts it. And by the way, 4.39 forty for the when they want to send him down the field a little bit. You can't just always be trying to play up on him, cause he can get around you, if defenses try to take that away and start jumping things.

[nobody 2,446]

Herbert in a walking boot for two weeks with a Plantar Fascia injury by the way. 

[League Champion 1,790]

26 minutes ago, nobody said:

Herbert in a walking boot for two weeks with a Plantar Fascia injury by the way. 

Here we go!! Gotta love this time of year. 

[Ray_T 713]

2 hours ago, nobody said:

Herbert in a walking boot for two weeks with a Plantar Fascia injury by the way. 

ouch.  not liking this, but at least there is time to recover.   early camp injuries dont worry me as much as late camp ones do (unless its of a serous nature)

[Showboat 220]

2 hours ago, nobody said:

Herbert in a walking boot for two weeks with a Plantar Fascia injury by the way. 

It will be a challenge to read between the lines and determine if this is just an "I don't like training camp" injury.  If legit, it could be concerning because the impacts of foot injuries always seem to linger.

[League Champion 1,790]

1 minute ago, Showboat said:

It will be a challenge to read between the lines and determine if this is just an "I don't like training camp" injury.  If legit, it could be concerning because the impacts of foot injuries always seem to linger.

Especially Plantar Fascia. This will be one to monitor, especially if they sign or trade for QB depth in the next few days. 

[kcBlitzkrieg 29]

I'll take Ladd all day as a WR4 on my team if he falls to me in the right spot....have no interest really in the other guys.  Herbert missing a few weeks could push his adp into the WR 50's range perhaps.  

[weepaws 2,963]

13 minutes ago, kcBlitzkrieg said:

I'll take Ladd all day as a WR4 on my team if he falls to me in the right spot....have no interest really in the other guys.  Herbert missing a few weeks could push his adp into the WR 50's range perhaps.  

12-14 team mocks, he’s been going as a 4-5 wr, I’m in also. 

[League Champion 1,790]

25 minutes ago, kcBlitzkrieg said:

I'll take Ladd all day as a WR4 on my team

I'm with you. There's nothing else on that roster, someone has to catch balls. 

[Ray_T 713]

1 hour ago, League Champion said:

I'm with you. There's nothing else on that roster, someone has to catch balls. 

there are 2 main possibilities.

1)  there will be someone who gets 1000 yards.

2) there will be multiple players who get 800-1000 yards but nobody gets 1000 yards.

Herbert (if healthy) is too good for one of these scenarios not to play out.  but if he misses significant time then there is the possibility the WR on the team will be a fantasy train wreck

[Ray_T 713]

ok a buddy just sent me a youtube video with a doctor talking about his injury.    I think I'm gonna rate anyone in this offense as 'avoid'  at least until we get clarification on the details of the injury.  it sounds like this could linger for much of the season and affect his ability to run.    hes not a huge running QB but its part of his game and may also affect his ability to plant and throw.   especially if its a minor tear (which takes longer to recover from)

 

[weepaws 2,963]

1 hour ago, Ray_T said:

ok a buddy just sent me a youtube video with a doctor talking about his injury.    I think I'm gonna rate anyone in this offense as 'avoid'  at least until we get clarification on the details of the injury.  it sounds like this could linger for much of the season and affect his ability to run.    hes not a huge running QB but its part of his game and may also affect his ability to plant and throw.   especially if its a minor tear (which takes longer to recover from)

 

Nasty injury.  

[League Champion 1,790]

9 hours ago, Ray_T said:

there are 2 main possibilities.

1)  there will be someone who gets 1000 yards.

2) there will be multiple players who get 800-1000 yards but nobody gets 1000 yards.

Herbert (if healthy) is too good for one of these scenarios not to play out.  but if he misses significant time then there is the possibility the WR on the team will be a fantasy train wreck

Agree

I don't love McConkey the player but damn, you gotta love his opportunity share. I like Palmer but I think he is what he is. He's not going to get into that WR1 territory, maybe but I just don't see it. 

Are we looking at a million dump offs to the backs? Will a TE emerge finally? 

[kcBlitzkrieg 29]

10 hours ago, Ray_T said:

ok a buddy just sent me a youtube video with a doctor talking about his injury.    I think I'm gonna rate anyone in this offense as 'avoid'  at least until we get clarification on the details of the injury.  it sounds like this could linger for much of the season and affect his ability to run.    hes not a huge running QB but its part of his game and may also affect his ability to plant and throw.   especially if its a minor tear (which takes longer to recover from)

 

Yes, lingering injury big concern.  

[kcBlitzkrieg 29]

5 hours ago, League Champion said:

Agree

I don't love McConkey the player but damn, you gotta love his opportunity share. I like Palmer but I think he is what he is. He's not going to get into that WR1 territory, maybe but I just don't see it. 

Are we looking at a million dump offs to the backs? Will a TE emerge finally? 

Hayden Hurst in a Greg Roman offense might not be a bad streaming play this season..... are we also gonna see some Easton Stick at some point...ugh.  

[gcmmidwest 129]

McConkey has past the eyeball test reminds me of a cooper kupp and Julian edleman  

[Ray_T 713]

50 minutes ago, gcmmidwest said:

McConkey has past the eyeball test reminds me of a cooper kupp and Julian edleman  

this is the deepest draft we have had at the WR position in a long while.  almost any other year McConkey is likely a first round pick

[GobbleDog 914]

I recently learned the Chargers 7th round pick this year - Brenden Rice... is Jerry Rice's son.

Not that he's gonna amount to anything fantasy wise this year, just didn't realize the connection. Marvin Harrison and Jerry Rice are back!  Wonder if Steve Largent had any kids.?.

[IGotWorms 3,909]

On 8/1/2024 at 10:44 AM, Ray_T said:

I dont think Chark is good enough to be a WR1.   while the talent is there, his route running on some routes still needs work.   What he does he does fairly well but he still struggles on certain routes.    he is more likely to be a good WR2 if he gets his act together.   he has had a 1000 yard season in the past and has played well in spurts but has also been woefully inconsistent.     

right now I think still hes mostly insurance in the sense they can play him if McConkey isnt where he needs to be or someone gets hurt.   Like I said earlier whoever is gonna be a top 2 WR on this team needs to beat him out.   I dont think the team wants him to win the battle unless he comes in and blows the doors off himself.   They want McConkey to do this.  They drafted him, hes Their guy.

 

either way, there are likely 2 fantasy relevant WR on this team.   I suspect Chark isnt one of them.  I think it will be Palmer and McConkey.

 

Chark is hot garbage. You look at that physical makeup and he SHOULD be good. But he just isn’t 

[Ray_T 713]

Just now, IGotWorms said:

Chark is hot garbage

irrelevant.  hes not draftable unless hes at least a #2 WR and right now it looks like hes #3 on the depth chart.

Like I said, the talent is there but he seems to be struggling to put it all together.

[GobbleDog 914]

On 8/1/2024 at 1:26 PM, kcBlitzkrieg said:

Yes..... interesting comparison this year for Cousins & Rodgers.  Cousins tear was his plant foot, Rodgers his non-plant foot.

That's interesting.  For the record Marino also tore his plant foot.

My gut says Achilles injuries won't effect Qb stats much. But with only 1 sample size, who knows.

[Ray_T 713]

1 hour ago, GobbleDog said:

That's interesting.  For the record Marino also tore his plant foot.

My gut says Achilles injuries won't effect Qb stats much. But with only 1 sample size, who knows.

honestly it affects scrambling ability more than anything.

with plant foot I suppose there is the risk it affects his throwing motion so maybe in pre season you may want to make sure.      I will say the one camp report I saw said Cousins looked extremely sharp so I'd say the odds are decent that he will be fine.

and as he is not a running QB this shouldnt change the way he plays in any significant way.    Hes a pocket passer and that wont change.

This injury is far worse for a RB than it is for QB.

[Ray_T 713]

chark best WR so far in camp?    so the articles say.   I dont know how good the source is, but when more than one source is saying this, its time to start to take a look.

 

Chargers training camp awards: MVP, Best Rookie, Stock Surge, and more | Sporting News

Chargers Training Camp Awards: MVP, Best Rookie & More Highlights - BVM Sports

 

Just an FYI.    I still recommend you do your own research and draw your own conclusions.   if anyone here does find anything interesting that would help sort this situation out, post here.  I do suspect most of the important info comes when Herbert returns and we see who he has built a connection with.

[kcBlitzkrieg 29]

On 8/1/2024 at 6:49 PM, kcBlitzkrieg said:

I'll take Ladd all day as a WR4 on my team if he falls to me in the right spot....have no interest really in the other guys.  Herbert missing a few weeks could push his adp into the WR 50's range perhaps.  

3 weeks later...... I passed on Ladd as WR4/WR5 in all drafts.  No time with Herbert, Greg Roman offense, think it takes a while to get him going and at the end of the day I have no clue who the WR to own is here and want no part of it.... 

[Ray_T 713]

31 minutes ago, kcBlitzkrieg said:

3 weeks later...... I passed on Ladd as WR4/WR5 in all drafts.  No time with Herbert, Greg Roman offense, think it takes a while to get him going and at the end of the day I have no clue who the WR to own is here and want no part of it.... 

well, if you manage to pick whoever emerges as the WR1, you could end up with a 1000 yard WR for pennies on the dollar.    if these guys fall far enough its well worth the lotto pick

[kcBlitzkrieg 29]

I don't disagree with whoever emerges as WR1 could get you 1K....at this point though I would rather have Palmer for much cheaper.... 9/10 round pick for Ladd is not "pennies".  Odunze/Watson/JSN all right in that same wheelhouse and higher upside.  

[Ray_T 713]

19 minutes ago, kcBlitzkrieg said:

I don't disagree with whoever emerges as WR1 could get you 1K....at this point though I would rather have Palmer for much cheaper.... 9/10 round pick for Ladd is not "pennies".  Odunze/Watson/JSN all right in that same wheelhouse and higher upside.  

I like Palmer the best among the Chargers WR because I think he has the highest floor of the 3.      

[weepaws 2,963]

With Herbert foot injury, and the new running game I don’t see any of the Chargers wr reaching/1000 yards.  I’ll pass. 

[Ray_T 713]

24 minutes ago, weepaws said:

With Herbert foot injury, and the new running game I don’t see any of the Chargers wr reaching/1000 yards.  I’ll pass. 

Herbert seems to be back.  Not sure how close he is to 100% but the fact he is practicing with time to spare makes me think hes not missing time.

[weepaws 2,963]

10 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

Herbert seems to be back.  Not sure how close he is to 100% but the fact he is practicing with time to spare makes me think hes not missing time.

Not an injury that just goes away, I think it will be a bother for him, i don’t see 1000 yard wr on the team.  They have four WRs , I think a McConkey is the best one, but he’s not going to get 1000.  

Flex play at best, but very frustrating.  

[Ray_T 713]

2 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Not an injury that just goes away, I think it will be a bother for him, i don’t see 1000 yard wr on the team.  

quite possibly right.   what I dont like is we know what the injury is, but not necessarily the severity.   though given timeline, likely a mild grade 2 injury.   it could have also been a grade 1 injury where they were being overly cautious. 

[gcmmidwest 129]

I ended up with chark & palmer ....hope one of them works out... I really don't like two wr's on the same team already got nabers&w.robinson 

[Ray_T 713]

2 hours ago, gcmmidwest said:

I ended up with chark & palmer ....hope one of them works out... I really don't like to wr's on the same team already got nabers&w.robinson 

apparently Chark is having a real good camp.   so he might be a sneaky good pick

[weepaws 2,963]

I saw that Chark might not play week one.  

[Ray_T 713]

4 hours ago, weepaws said:

I saw that Chark might not play week one.  

yes apparently a hip injury of sorts..  Missed Wednesday's practice.  hopefully it is not serious