MVS to the Bills

[cmh6476 834]

 

 

 

 

[polecatt 417]

I guess he will help, but not as much they would like

[weepaws 2,693]

He can’t catch, unless he’s good on the ST unit, I don’t see why they picked him up. 

[Ray_T 673]

14 hours ago, polecatt said:

I guess he will help, but not as much they would like

he will help in the sense that WR's on the team know how good they need to be to get playing time.

hes just good enough to be on the field but not good enough to draft for fantasy.    Hes a third WR on most NFL teams.  4th WR on some

[listen2me 23 1,670]

On 5/23/2024 at 1:44 AM, weepaws said:

He can’t catch, unless he’s good on the ST unit, I don’t see why they picked him up. 

To stretch thr field as they really don't have that element.   

MVS is what he is.  But hes won 2 SBs and played with 2 elite QBs and contributed. 

You are saying theyd be better with an empty spot?  They picked him up because they needed speed and depth.  Not rocket science.  

 

[weepaws 2,693]

He avg 2 rec per game playing with Mahomes, he’s currently listed on the Bills depth chart wr6.   He can’t catch, unless he can play st, he’s not a value to the Bills,   He’s a very poor mans G Davis.  No wr on the Bills current roster as contribute much at all unto to date, it’s a real challenge to decide which one is going to be the right one imo.   

[listen2me 23 1,670]

1 hour ago, weepaws said:

He avg 2 rec per game playing with Mahomes, he’s currently listed on the Bills depth chart wr6.   He can’t catch, unless he can play st, he’s not a value to the Bills,   He’s a very poor mans G Davis.  No wr on the Bills current roster as contribute much at all unto to date, it’s a real challenge to decide which one is going to be the right one imo.   

MVS is fast.  Gabe isn't.   

He won't be WR 6 on their team lol.  

Im not saying hes going to be fantasy relevant.   I told you why they picked him up.  

[weepaws 2,693]

47 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

MVS is fast.  Gabe isn't.   

He won't be WR 6 on their team lol.  

Im not saying hes going to be fantasy relevant.   I told you why they picked him up.  

He’s listed wr6 now,  he can’t catch ,very important for a wr.  I doubt he makes it to the opening day roster.   Poor man G Davis. Just like I told you before.  

[listen2me 23 1,670]

39 minutes ago, weepaws said:

He’s listed wr6 now,  he can’t catch ,very important for a wr.  I doubt he makes it to the opening day roster.   Poor man G Davis. Just like I told you before.  

Depth charts mean close to nothing right now.  You know that right?   They haven't even got to training camp.  

MVS played the 2nd most WR snaps on the SB team last year.  But he can't make a team?  

Lol you are on drugs.  

[Ray_T 673]

1 hour ago, listen2me 23 said:

MVS is fast.  Gabe isn't.   

He won't be WR 6 on their team lol.  

Im not saying hes going to be fantasy relevant.   I told you why they picked him up.  

bingo.

I predict low catches but high TD (at least relative to the # of catches)

but no, not fantasy relevant.    and likely not close either.

[weepaws 2,693]

Projections for him,   11-16 rec, less than 220 yards, one td.   I doubt he’s on the team week one.  

Only Wr right now I would even remotely be interested on Buffalo would be C Samuel.  

[listen2me 23 1,670]

8 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Projections for him,   11-16 rec, less than 220 yards, one td.   I doubt he’s on the team week one.  

Only Wr right now I would even remotely be interested on Buffalo would be C Samuel.  

So he had dinner with Josh on his vosit and Josh wanted him they sign him to perhaps the worst reciever room in the league then will cut him?  

Alrighty.  Im talking real football.  I know its a lost art around here.  I dont care what some goof 5k miles away projects him at in July.  

He would need to be on the team to catch 11-16 passes doesn't he?  Lol.  You know that right?

[weepaws 2,693]

We agree, no value because I doubt he’s on the roster week one, to very little value if he’s on the team.  Thanks. 

Shhh don’t tell MVS, but I’m pretty sure that Allen has had dinner with other of Buffalos Wr.  Not really news worthy. 

Thanks  

 

[Ray_T 673]

41 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Projections for him,   11-16 rec, less than 220 yards, one td.   I doubt he’s on the team week one.  

Only Wr right now I would even remotely be interested on Buffalo would be C Samuel.  

no, historically he has gotten between 400 and 600 yards.    and in the new home they will try hard to utilize him as an asset. 

I figure 450 -500 total yards wth about half of that coming on longer TD throws.   so lets estimate 3-5 TD

these numbers are roughly in line with career averages

[weepaws 2,693]

4 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

no, historically he has gotten between 400 and 600 yards.    and in the new home they will try hard to utilize him as an asset. 

I figure 450 -500 total yards wth about half of that coming on longer TD throws.   so lets estimate 3-5 TD

these numbers are roughly in line with career averages

Those are projections that I’ve viewed from others.  16 tds over six seasons, playing with Mahomes and Rodgers.  Mmm not good.  

Last season 16 games 21 rec, one td witn Mahomes, Not roster worthy. Imo. 

 

[Ray_T 673]

1 minute ago, weepaws said:

Those are projections that I’ve viewed from others.  

now you have my projection.

not that it matters.   even if my projections are higher, the bottom line is that hes not really draftable in any format unless you are looking at 20 team leagues or something of the like

[weepaws 2,693]

2 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

now you have my projection.

not that it matters.   even if my projections are higher, the bottom line is that hes not really draftable in any format unless you are looking at 20 team leagues or something of the like

Not talking ff wise, I don’t think he’s on the team come week one, unless he can play st.  

[Ray_T 673]

12 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Not talking ff wise, I don’t think he’s on the team come week one, unless he can play st.  

I think he makes the team.   There is always room for a field stretching WR who fits as a WR3 or lower. 

The real question is where he lands on the depth chart.     of course if hes getting paid more than he should, then there is a risk of being cut to make room for another acquisition.  at a one year deal worth up to 4.5 mil hes not that costly.  I suspect thats WR3 money.   so yeah if he sits on the bench a lot hes a candidate to be cut.   but more likely he plays out the contract and doesnt get re signed.    keep in mind he may be also being brought in because he has superbowl rings.   they may actually want that experience in the room.

[TBayXXXVII 2,289]

I don't see how this would move the needle for either MVS, Allen, or the Bills.

I may be wrong on this, but I don't get the love for Allen and the Bills.  Allen is an excellent athlete and a "good" QB.   He's not an excellent QB and good athlete.  He needs more help than what the Bills are giving him in the passing game.  It seems to me that the Bills would want to reduce Allen's rushing because that's going to expedite his demise.  Giving him mediocre to below average... and unknown... talent on the outside is NOT going to ensure a solid passing game to limit Allen's exposure to downfield hits.  Allen put up good passing numbers in the past because teams had to respect Diggs and the passing game.  They don't have to do that now, we kinda saw that in the second half of the season last year.  There's no one on this team, yet, that I can see, that warrants special attention.  I don't think Allen is that good of a passer to overcome those shortcomings.

When I see WR's like are in Buffalo, I think that's great if your QB is Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Pat Mahomes, Tom Brady, because they are elite passers who can get guys the ball if they're open.  That's NOT Josh Allen.  I think Allen's passing numbers will be worse than last year and I think his rushing numbers will be as well, because I don't think he'll have the lanes he's accustomed to.  I think he fails to break 4k passing yards.  I think his ceiling on TD's is what he had last year, and I think it's unlikely for him to hit that total.  

I see him at 3800 yards, 26 TD's, 500 rushing yards and 5 rushing TD's... throw in a half dozen picks and I think he's around 320 points, so about 19 fpg.  That's fine, but that puts him in a melting pot of 6 or 7 other guys and no longer a trump card.  He's not a QB I take early, he's maybe a 4th or 5th round guy?  Looking at ADP, I'd if I'm taking a QB in R's 2 through 4, I'd rather take (in no particular order), Hurts, Jackson, Stroud, & Mahomes over him.  I can see an argument for Richardson, but I can't justify picking him based off of only 4 games and a season-ending injury.  From a value perspective, based on ADP, I'd rather have Prescott, Burrow, Love, & Goff in their expected rounds over Allen in R2.

I think the Bills struggle to be .500.  I see them maxing out at 9 wins and missing the playoffs.

THIS would change my opinion.

[Ray_T 673]

32 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I don't see how this would move the needle for either MVS, Allen, or the Bills.

I may be wrong on this, but I don't get the love for Allen and the Bills.  Allen is an excellent athlete and a "good" QB.   He's not an excellent QB and good athlete.  He needs more help than what the Bills are giving him in the passing game.  It seems to me that the Bills would want to reduce Allen's rushing because that's going to expedite his demise.  Giving him mediocre to below average... and unknown... talent on the outside is NOT going to ensure a solid passing game to limit Allen's exposure to downfield hits.  Allen put up good passing numbers in the past because teams had to respect Diggs and the passing game.  They don't have to do that now, we kinda saw that in the second half of the season last year.  There's no one on this team, yet, that I can see, that warrants special attention.  I don't think Allen is that good of a passer to overcome those shortcomings.

When I see WR's like are in Buffalo, I think that's great if your QB is Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Pat Mahomes, Tom Brady, because they are elite passers who can get guys the ball if they're open.  That's NOT Josh Allen.  I think Allen's passing numbers will be worse than last year and I think his rushing numbers will be as well, because I don't think he'll have the lanes he's accustomed to.  I think he fails to break 4k passing yards.  I think his ceiling on TD's is what he had last year, and I think it's unlikely for him to hit that total.  

I see him at 3800 yards, 26 TD's, 500 rushing yards and 5 rushing TD's... throw in a half dozen picks and I think he's around 320 points, so about 19 fpg.  That's fine, but that puts him in a melting pot of 6 or 7 other guys and no longer a trump card.  He's not a QB I take early, he's maybe a 4th or 5th round guy?  Looking at ADP, I'd if I'm taking a QB in R's 2 through 4, I'd rather take (in no particular order), Hurts, Jackson, Stroud, & Mahomes over him.  I can see an argument for Richardson, but I can't justify picking him based off of only 4 games and a season-ending injury.  From a value perspective, based on ADP, I'd rather have Prescott, Burrow, Love, & Goff in their expected rounds over Allen in R2.

I think the Bills struggle to be .500.  I see them maxing out at 9 wins and missing the playoffs.

 

THIS would change my opinion.

fair comments.  your projections are a little more pessimistic than mine are.    I was projecting 4000-4100 yards passing

My rationale:  Diggs was really a non factor in most of the second half of the year.  not sure if he was playing injured or disgruntled and just not trying or what the deal was, but I think the dropoff due to losing him is not going to be as great as what people are thinking.   but its still there and will be a real thing.

while we disagree on the size of the dropoff, we both seem to agree there will be one.   

and no, hes not an early QB selection in a redraft this year but hes still a QB1 for fantasy so long as Rush yards count.

[TBayXXXVII 2,289]

27 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

fair comments.  your projections are a little more pessimistic than mine are.    I was projecting 4000-4100 yards passing

My rationale:  Diggs was really a non factor in most of the second half of the year.  not sure if he was playing injured or disgruntled and just not trying or what the deal was, but I think the dropoff due to losing him is not going to be as great as what people are thinking.   but its still there and will be a real thing.

while we disagree on the size of the dropoff, we both seem to agree there will be one.   

and no, hes not an early QB selection in a redraft this year but hes still a QB1 for fantasy so long as Rush yards count.

Yeah, we're in the ballpark.  I do agree that he's still a QB1, but he's not a game winner like he was.

[weepaws 2,693]

1 hour ago, Ray_T said:

I think he makes the team.   There is always room for a field stretching WR who fits as a WR3 or lower. 

The real question is where he lands on the depth chart.     of course if hes getting paid more than he should, then there is a risk of being cut to make room for another acquisition.  at a one year deal worth up to 4.5 mil hes not that costly.  I suspect thats WR3 money.   so yeah if he sits on the bench a lot hes a candidate to be cut.   but more likely he plays out the contract and doesnt get re signed.    keep in mind he may be also being brought in because he has superbowl rings.   they may actually want that experience in the room.

That’s okay.  Thanks 

[JagFan 117]

The only relevance this signing has is to show just how desperate the Bills are for warm bodies at the WR position.  Fantasy wise, it’s further proof that Alan should probably be drop down a spot or two in your rankings.  If you aren’t seeing that, you are probably a Bills fan.

[Ray_T 673]

15 hours ago, JagFan said:

The only relevance this signing has is to show just how desperate the Bills are for warm bodies at the WR position.  Fantasy wise, it’s further proof that Alan should probably be drop down a spot or two in your rankings.  If you aren’t seeing that, you are probably a Bills fan.

like I mentioned earlier.   I dont think this is a desperation play. 

its more like they needed a field stretching WR3/4 and also wanted someone who has an experience that may be helpful.   he played for a superbowl winning team.

so they wanted that element in their dressing room and they got it.  paid a bit extra because he provides that superbowl experience.   but they were happy to do it.

[weepaws 2,693]

From a few articles I just read , he’s not doing much, looks like he’s still barely holding unto a roster spot.  I wouldn’t rank him. 

 

[Ray_T 673]

On 7/31/2024 at 9:19 AM, weepaws said:

From a few articles I just read , he’s not doing much, looks like he’s still barely holding unto a roster spot.  I wouldn’t rank him. 

 

its far too early in camp to make that determination.   if it still looks like this with only one exhibition game left then Id say hes in trouble.

Vets get to sit a lot in early pre season and sometimes dont look the part until the chips are on the table.

personally I think hes there more for his superbowl experience than he is for his skill as a WR.    while the skill as a WR needs to meet a minimum level for him to stay, I think he gets some leeway because they want that experience in the room.

lets be clear, neither of us thinks hes a stud.  Quite probably not even a starter.   the waters get awfully murky beyond that point when you are this early in the pre season.   

either way I dont care a whole lot about this as I'm never drafting him in any of my leagues anyway.   but to summarize, you think he doesnt make the roster cuz hes not good.   I think hes there for the experience and likely makes the team for that reason alone.   Personally I think the difference is I'm taking the superbowl ring into account more than you are.  and thats fine.  that happens sometimes.  Lets see what happens.

[TBayXXXVII 2,289]

On 8/4/2024 at 2:04 AM, Ray_T said:

its far too early in camp to make that determination.   if it still looks like this with only one exhibition game left then Id say hes in trouble.

Vets get to sit a lot in early pre season and sometimes dont look the part until the chips are on the table.

personally I think hes there more for his superbowl experience than he is for his skill as a WR.    while the skill as a WR needs to meet a minimum level for him to stay, I think he gets some leeway because they want that experience in the room.

lets be clear, neither of us thinks hes a stud.  Quite probably not even a starter.   the waters get awfully murky beyond that point when you are this early in the pre season.   

either way I dont care a whole lot about this as I'm never drafting him in any of my leagues anyway.   but to summarize, you think he doesnt make the roster cuz hes not good.   I think hes there for the experience and likely makes the team for that reason alone.   Personally I think the difference is I'm taking the superbowl ring into account more than you are.  and thats fine.  that happens sometimes.  Lets see what happens.

In general, I'd agree with you, but we're talking about a guy who played with Aaron Rodgers and Pat Mahomes.  Neither team kept him around for more than 3 years and on neither team was he a difference maker.  He's a 30/500/3 guy on teams with elite QB's.  He's a JAG.  Allen isn't the passer that Rodgers and Mahomes are.  He'll have less value and likely produce less, with a passer like Allen.  Guys like MVS are a dime a dozen.  No need to pay him $2M+ or even $4M+ when there's probably rookie contract guys who can give you that... either individually or collectively, where they do other things (i.e., punt/kick returns).

[Ray_T 673]

3 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

In general, I'd agree with you, but we're talking about a guy who played with Aaron Rodgers and Pat Mahomes.  Neither team kept him around for more than 3 years and on neither team was he a difference maker.  He's a 30/500/3 guy on teams with elite QB's.  He's a JAG.  Guys like him are a dime a dozen.  No need to pay him $2M+ or even $4M+ when there's probably rookie contract guys who can give you that... either individually or collectively, where they do other things (i.e., punt/kick returns).

fully agree on the skill.   that leaves only one reason why he could possibly be there.    they want a guy with a superbowl ring on the roster.    Its the only logical (or semi logical) explanation.  hes not there for his production on the field I doubt.   unless for some reason the coach thinks he can get more out of him than any other team with an elite QB has.

[TBayXXXVII 2,289]

10 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

fully agree on the skill.   that leaves only one reason why he could possibly be there.    they want a guy with a superbowl ring on the roster.    Its the only logical (or semi logical) explanation.  hes not there for his production on the field I doubt.   unless for some reason the coach thinks he can get more out of him than any other team with an elite QB has.

Yup, agreed.  It's possible that they think that his speed to get down field could work better with Allen than Rodgers and Mahomes.  I could buy that with Rodgers, he's almost a statue, but Mahomes is worse that Lamar Jackson with pocket time.  Mahomes says hike and he's outside the pocket before his 3rd dropback step.  He's always moving up, back, left, and right.  He gives his guys forever to get downfield or where ever they need to be.  It leads me to believe that you're correct.

[Ray_T 673]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Yup, agreed.  It's possible that they think that his speed to get down field could work better with Allen than Rodgers and Mahomes.  I could buy that with Rodgers, he's almost a statue, but Mahomes is worse that Lamar Jackson with pocket time.  Mahomes says hike and he's outside the pocket before his 3rd dropback step.  He's always moving up, back, left, and right.  He gives his guys forever to get downfield or where ever they need to be.  It leads me to believe that you're correct.

well, it is worth noting that on each team he had an alpha WR on the other side who is a deep threat.   he doesnt have this in Buffalo so maybe his need is greater here.

[TBayXXXVII 2,289]

9 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

well, it is worth noting that on each team he had an alpha WR on the other side who is a deep threat.   he doesnt have this in Buffalo so maybe his need is greater here.

Which should've made it easier for him.  He was generally the 3rd WR when on the field.  Not only was the opponent was concentrating their efforts on stopping the WR1 threat, they also were covering the WR2.  MVS spend most of his routes with one-on-one coverage against their 2nd or 3rd corner with an over-the-top safety net or zone.  With his speed, he should've been able to exploit those matchups.  I never really watched many Green Bay or KC games exclusively, but my guess is that he was very limited in his route running abilities and both GB and KC just used him as a one-trick pony because that's all he is.  Meaning, I think he was placed in his role because of the player he is, not the team just using him for one thing.

[Ray_T 673]

9 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Which should've made it easier for him.  He was generally the 3rd WR when on the field.  Not only was the opponent was concentrating their efforts on stopping the WR1 threat, they also were covering the WR2.  MVS spend most of his routes with one-on-one coverage against their 2nd or 3rd corner with an over-the-top safety net or zone.  With his speed, he should've been able to exploit those matchups.  I never really watched many Green Bay or KC games exclusively, but my guess is that he was very limited in his route running abilities and both GB and KC just used him as a one-trick pony because that's all he is.  Meaning, I think he was placed in his role because of the player he is, not the team just using him for one thing.

either way, I dont care all that much.   Im not drafting the guy.  never have, likely never will.   for most people here, thats really all the validation you need haha.

do not draft.

the rest may be nice to speculate upon but in the end, it doesnt really matter

[League Champion 1,655]

The Bills might have the biggest JAG WR group that I've ever seen. 

[GobbleDog 890]

12 minutes ago, League Champion said:

The Bills might have the biggest JAG WR group that I've ever seen. 

I was interested in Coleman who I believe finishes with the most receiving Tds simply due to rebounding ability and lack of Wr competition. Was hoping to draft him in double digit rounds... unfortunately he goes 7th or 8th in most mocks. More than I'm willing to pay, because receptions/yardage is a total mystery.

Have no interest in any of the other Wrs. Not much in Kincaid either at his adp, because I worry Knox isn't officially dead.

[weepaws 2,693]

32 minutes ago, League Champion said:

The Bills might have the biggest JAG WR group that I've ever seen. 

It’s not good. 

[weepaws 2,693]

11 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

I was interested in Coleman who I believe finishes with the most receiving Tds simply due to rebounding ability and lack of Wr competition. Was hoping to draft him in double digit rounds... unfortunately he goes 7th or 8th in most mocks. More than I'm willing to pay, because receptions/yardage is a total mystery.

Have no interest in any of the other Wrs. Not much in Kincaid either at his adp, because I worry Knox isn't officially dead.

Only one I’m even a little interested in , is still C Samuel.  I’ve been drafting him as a wr5 a lot in mocks.  

[listen2me 23 1,670]

42 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

I was interested in Coleman who I believe finishes with the most receiving Tds simply due to rebounding ability and lack of Wr competition. Was hoping to draft him in double digit rounds... unfortunately he goes 7th or 8th in most mocks. More than I'm willing to pay, because receptions/yardage is a total mystery.

Have no interest in any of the other Wrs. Not much in Kincaid either at his adp, because I worry Knox isn't officially dead.

Knox aint dead.  But they run a lot of 2 TE.  In 12 games he had 186 yards last season when Kincaid was a rookie.  Is that a lot yards for a 2nd TE?  

I think Kincaid has a big year.   Not only is  targeted WRs now missing, but word is they are targeting in a lot of RZ situations at practice.  Kincaid is a very talented receiving TE.  

I do agree though, at his ADP there isnt a ton of room to soak up value.  

[Ray_T 673]

53 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Only one I’m even a little interested in , is still C Samuel.  I’ve been drafting him as a wr5 a lot in mocks.  

I actually like him this year.   I think he puts up draftable numbers.    John Brown put up 1000 yards in this offense and at the time he was considered to be washed up.

it is my belief that whatever WR turns out to be the #1 WR in this offense will likely put up 1000 yards (or close to it).    You can take this one to the bank boys and girls.  and Samuel right now is my bet on this. (though I reserve my right to change my mind if someone else flashes a lot in camp)

[GobbleDog 890]

11 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

1000 yards (or close to it).    You can take this one to the bank boys and girls.  and Samuel right now is my bet on this. (though I reserve my right to change my mind if someone else flashes a lot in camp)

Too late. I already took it to the bank.

Don't understand the love for Samuel. Career slot guy who's never done anything notable in his 7 years. All of a sudden, he's gonna be good? 

 

[Ray_T 673]

4 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

Too late. I already took it to the bank.

Don't understand the love for Samuel. Career slot guy who's never done anything notable in his 7 years. All of a sudden, he's gonna be good? 

 

its more an endorsement of whoever emerges as the #1.   right now that looks like him but is subject to change.   whoever wins the #1 job is the one who puts up the numbers.  that's what I'm saying.