the other RBs

[wolves111 82]

3 hours ago, weepaws said:

D Montgomery ppr adp is 78, fantastic adp.  

Yeah it is. Gibbs potential to have a Todd Gurley season also fantastic.

No balls no glory 

[weepaws 2,693]

46 minutes ago, wolves111 said:

Yeah it is. Gibbs potential to have a Todd Gurley season also fantastic.

No balls no glory 

This is a ff board, please refrain from talking about my balls.   Thanks. 

[wolves111 82]

53 minutes ago, weepaws said:

This is a ff board, please refrain from talking about my balls.   Thanks. 

There’s just too many snarky comments I could reply with.

I’ll offer the olive branch. Up to you to accept or reject. You choose to reject consider yourself blocked.

 

[weepaws 2,693]

27 minutes ago, wolves111 said:

There’s just too many snarky comments I could reply with.

I’ll offer the olive branch. Up to you to accept or reject. You choose to reject consider yourself blocked.

 

You told me not to post you I don’t, And then you post about my balls.  Block away.  Thanks 

[wolves111 82]

2 minutes ago, weepaws said:

You told me not to post you I don’t, And then you post about my balls.  Block away.  Thanks 

I feel sorry for you. Your pain must be difficult to bear. Otherwise, you would just be a fking azzhole. 
Hope you wake up before it’s to late.

[weepaws 2,693]

36 minutes ago, wolves111 said:

I feel sorry for you. Your pain must be difficult to bear. Otherwise, you would just be a fking azzhole. 
Hope you wake up before it’s to late.

Please stop with private messages with  the filthy language.   Thanks.  

It’s called Blocked.  Keep looking for it.  

[WhiteWonder 2,390]

Dobbins is the better gamble over Edwards imho.

[DocNiner 52]

I like Spears to outplay Pollard.and be the Titans RB1. I also like Jonathan Brooks but probably not til mid-season

 

[Maximum Overkill 1,125]

8 minutes ago, DocNiner said:

I like Spears to outplay Pollard.and be the Titans RB1. I also like Jonathan Brooks but probably not til mid-season

 

I love Spears as well but I see that being a frustrating backfield for Fantasy owners. 

I love, love love Jonathan Brooks. Especially if I have him for a playoff run. I feel the same about Trey Benson. 

[weepaws 2,693]

When is Brooks due to being able to play?  And with Young at Qb, I’m a little hesitant.  

[Maximum Overkill 1,125]

22 minutes ago, weepaws said:

When is Brooks due to being able to play?  And with Young at Qb, I’m a little hesitant.  

They say he'll be ready for training camp but I imagine they'll ease him in. His ADP is going to skyrocket if camp reports are good. I wouldn't expect otherwise, he's a Bijan type talent. 

[GobbleDog 890]

52 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

I feel the same about Trey Benson. 

From the way scouts talk about him... good lord. Sounds like a beast.

Last two years at FSU, Benson finished #1 out of 226 qualified Rbs in forced missed tackles per attempt. Once he breaks into the second level, his size and speed come into play which created so many explosive runs. Stud of an athlete and multi-skilled - motions out to slot and displays high-level receiver skills. As a receiver, Benson was in the 86th percentile in forced missed tackles per reception. He can sell play action and work his way through the line of scrimmage to get open. Relatively low-millage thanks to FSU's coach not working players to dust.

Obviously the problem is James Connor who's coming off the greatest season of his career. But he's 29 yo and the Cards are going to want to kick the tires on their offensive weapon. I'm guessing they split carries pretty evenly til mid-season. Then it becomes Benson's backfield.

[Maximum Overkill 1,125]

6 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

Obviously the problem is James Connor who's coming off the greatest season of his career. But he's 29 yo and the Cards are going to want to kick the tires on their offensive weapon. I'm guessing they split carries pretty evenly til mid-season. Then it becomes Benson's backfield.

Absolutely!

And it's inevitable, Conner will get hurt. If he misses any significant time then Benson could be league winner at a late ADP. 

I want all the Benson shares I can get. 

[weepaws 2,693]

I think Conner will get the majority of work early on, Benson owners might become a little frustrated, but a few game into the season Benson will start to get more work, Conner gets injured, and I now have a rb1 for a very cheap price.   

[DocNiner 52]

Yeah the situation with Brooks as I see it I think he'll be ready for TC just not at full capacity. They have Hubbard who can handle the load early on but I look for Brooks involvement to expand by week 6 or 7. Carolina has addressed some issues of the offensive line so the Panthers run game should be better overall. Having that will also help Young. Their receiving corps is less than desirable so defenses will key on the run. The O-linr will improve ad the season goes on and come fantasy playoffs Brooks will be someone to give consideration to in your lineup with the right matchups.

[IGotWorms 3,759]

6 hours ago, DocNiner said:

Yeah the situation with Brooks as I see it I think he'll be ready for TC just not at full capacity. They have Hubbard who can handle the load early on but I look for Brooks involvement to expand by week 6 or 7. Carolina has addressed some issues of the offensive line so the Panthers run game should be better overall. Having that will also help Young. Their receiving corps is less than desirable so defenses will key on the run. The O-linr will improve ad the season goes on and come fantasy playoffs Brooks will be someone to give consideration to in your lineup with the right matchups.

I don’t think Carolina traded up to draft Brooks as the first running back off the board, just to have him sit and rehab for half the year.

I think they believe he will be ready week one.

It’s possible they’re wrong about that, though probably not from everything I’ve read.

But I focking love his ADP right now so  

[GobbleDog 890]

21 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

I think they believe he will be ready week one.

Not cutting Miles Sanders after June 1st could indicate otherwise. They also signed old Rashaad Penny who played for the coach in Seattle.  Even if Brooks is ready from the start, I doubt he gets a full workload right off the bat. They'll probably ease him in.

Brooks current 10th rd adp looks great right now considering what he might be doing by mid-season... but the hype train is just starting. By late August he could very well be 6th+- rd depending on preseason. Which might be higher than I'm willing to pay considering he won't get the full work all season, re-injury risk, and with Carolina finishing dead last offensively last year.

[IGotWorms 3,759]

2 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

Not cutting Miles Sanders after June 1st could indicate otherwise. They also signed old Rashaad Penny who played for the coach in Seattle.  Even if Brooks is ready from the start, I doubt he gets a full workload right off the bat. They'll probably ease him in.

Brooks current 10th rd adp looks great right now considering what he might be doing by mid-season... but the hype train is just starting. By late August he could very well be 6th+- rd depending on preseason. Which might be higher than I'm willing to pay considering he won't get the full work all season, re-injury risk, and with Carolina finishing dead last offensively last year.

6th rd would probably be appropriate and at that point you definitely have to weigh the risks. I’d still take him though 

[kcBlitzkrieg 27]

Speaking of Zamir.... fun fact about Raidahs rookie RB Laube. 

His receiving stat line from ONE game last year.....  12 / 295 / 2 tds 

 

 

[Maximum Overkill 1,125]

44 minutes ago, kcBlitzkrieg said:

Speaking of Zamir.... fun fact about Raidahs rookie RB Laube. 

His receiving stat line from ONE game last year.....  12 / 295 / 2 tds 

 

 

And yet never went over 900 yards in a season in College. 

[GobbleDog 890]

21 hours ago, kcBlitzkrieg said:

Speaking of Zamir.... fun fact about Raidahs rookie RB Laube. 

His receiving stat line from ONE game last year.....  12 / 295 / 2 tds

New Hampshire -vs- Central Michigan

Al Bundy once scored 4 Tds in a single game at Polk High!

Seriously though Laube carried that New Hampshire team all year and did have a high RAS score (9.2) at the combine. If Zamir gets injured, I'll take a waiver on Laube over worthless Mattison.

[Maximum Overkill 1,125]

21 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

Al Bundy

STUD! 

[kcBlitzkrieg 27]

28 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

And yet never went over 900 yards in a season in College. 

hence, the "fun fact" label.  

[kcBlitzkrieg 27]

27 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

New Hampshire -vs- Central Michigan

Al Bundy once scored 4 Tds in a single game at Polk High!

Seriously though Laube carried that New Hampshire team all year and did have a high RAS score at the combine. If Zamir gets injured, I'll take a waiver on Laube over worthless Mattison.

I saw a stat the other day on Mattison that was something like 9 carries within the 5 yard line for -7 yards rushing.  Puke.  

[Maximum Overkill 1,125]

2 minutes ago, kcBlitzkrieg said:

I saw a stat the other day on Mattison that was something like 9 carries within the 5 yard line for -7 yards rushing.  Puke.  

Sounds about right 

[weepaws 2,693]

2 hours ago, GobbleDog said:

Not cutting Miles Sanders after June 1st could indicate otherwise. They also signed old Rashaad Penny who played for the coach in Seattle.  Even if Brooks is ready from the start, I doubt he gets a full workload right off the bat. They'll probably ease him in.

Brooks current 10th rd adp looks great right now considering what he might be doing by mid-season... but the hype train is just starting. By late August he could very well be 6th+- rd depending on preseason. Which might be higher than I'm willing to pay considering he won't get the full work all season, re-injury risk, and with Carolina finishing dead last offensively last year.

 

2 hours ago, IGotWorms said:

6th rd would probably be appropriate and at that point you definitely have to weigh the risks. I’d still take him though 

Brooks adp currently is in non ppr#86, ppr # 91, half #88.  So looking like 8th rd.  

[Maximum Overkill 1,125]

32 minutes ago, weepaws said:

 

Brooks adp currently is in non ppr#86, ppr # 91, half #88.  So looking like 8th rd.  

I'm all over that!! He's a high end RB1 the second he takes the field. 

[weepaws 2,693]

8th rd works even if he misses time early into the season.  But like posted above, by late August that will change.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,289]

On 7/7/2024 at 8:15 PM, GobbleDog said:

Pick 75) Zamir White - One my favorites and probably reach early. Vegas coach on record about love for work-horse backs.

I'm on the complete opposite end of the spectrum with you on this one.  He's a runner only on a team that won't score much and be losing a lot.  Sure, he might get 75% of the carries, but how many will that be... 12 a game?  White is a non-factor in the passing game... what, a catch a game maybe for like 7 yards?  If he rushes for 6 yards per carry he'll get someone 8.5 fpg with a shot that maybe once every 4 games, he scores a TD.  Hard pass on this dude.  I wouldn't even pick him up off waivers, let alone draft him.

Yeah, I know he averaged like 20 a game last year at the end of the season, but I think this years team will be a lot worse than last year's.  I think if they win 5 games, that should be considered as massively successful season.  I expect them to be losing by 10 points in the 2nd Quarter in almost every game making the running attack moot in the second half.  Don't act like I'm nuts on 5 wins either.  Vegas has their number at 6.5 with only 3 teams (Carolina, Denver, and New England), with less... so they're expected to be in the range of one of the 5 worst teams in the league.

Yeah, I know, I may be exaggerating with 12 carries... he may get 17, but I was also exaggerating with 6 ypc as well.  Odds are, he'll be around 4.  So, 12 carries a 6 per clip is almost the same as 17 carries at 4 per clip.  My point is, he'll probably be somewhere between 12 and 17 a game depending on how bad they're getting beat.  The fact that he's a non-factor in the passing game makes him very dependent on TD's.  This team may be one of the worst scoring teams in the NFL, so I highly doubt that White's scoring a lot of TD's.  With drafting a guy in the mid-70's , you're expecting him to be your RB2 or flex play.  In a PPR league, I want more than 9 fpg from my RB/Flex guy.

I'd project him for 220 carries at 4.2 per clip (924 yards), with 25 receptions for 150 yards and 5 total TD's.  That comes to about 162 PPR fantasy points, or 9.6 per game, which by last years' standards, RB41.  To note, I think I'm being generous with those projections.

[weepaws 2,693]

59 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I'm on the complete opposite end of the spectrum with you on this one.  He's a runner only on a team that won't score much and be losing a lot.  Sure, he might get 75% of the carries, but how many will that be... 12 a game?  White is a non-factor in the passing game... what, a catch a game maybe for like 7 yards?  If he rushes for 6 yards per carry he'll get someone 8.5 fpg with a shot that maybe once every 4 games, he scores a TD.  Hard pass on this dude.  I wouldn't even pick him up off waivers, let alone draft him.

Yeah, I know he averaged like 20 a game last year at the end of the season, but I think this years team will be a lot worse than last year's.  I think if they win 5 games, that should be considered as massively successful season.  I expect them to be losing by 10 points in the 2nd Quarter in almost every game making the running attack moot in the second half.  Don't act like I'm nuts on 5 wins either.  Vegas has their number at 6.5 with only 3 teams (Carolina, Denver, and New England), with less... so they're expected to be in the range of one of the 5 worst teams in the league.

Yeah, I know, I may be exaggerating with 12 carries... he may get 17, but I was also exaggerating with 6 ypc as well.  Odds are, he'll be around 4.  So, 12 carries a 6 per clip is almost the same as 17 carries at 4 per clip.  My point is, he'll probably be somewhere between 12 and 17 a game depending on how bad they're getting beat.  The fact that he's a non-factor in the passing game makes him very dependent on TD's.  This team may be one of the worst scoring teams in the NFL, so I highly doubt that White's scoring a lot of TD's.  With drafting a guy in the mid-70's , you're expecting him to be your RB2 or flex play.  In a PPR league, I want more than 9 fpg from my RB/Flex guy.

I'd project him for 220 carries at 4.2 per clip (924 yards), with 25 receptions for 150 yards and 5 total TD's.  That comes to about 162 PPR fantasy points, or 9.6 per game, which by last years' standards, RB41.  To note, I think I'm being generous with those projections.

Yea, that can be the way it plays out.   

[GobbleDog 890]

2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Sure, he might get 75% of the carries, but how many will that be... 12 a game?  White is a non-factor in the passing game...

I think if they win 5 games, that should be considered as massively successful season.

"12 carries per game" ... Really low estimate with Antonio Pierce as coach - president of the bell-cow conservation society. Went on record about wanting his back hitting "the magic number of 20 carries". Coached the final nine games as interim with lead back averaging 20.4 carries. White averaged 21 per game with Jacobs out. Raiders beefed up o-line spending a 1st rd pick on Te, then a 2nd and 3rd on linemen, and signed a free-agent center.

"Non-factor in passing game" ... White averaged over 3 targets per game with Jacobs out. Jacobs himself averaged over 4 targets per game. Players like Gus Edwards/Travis Henry are non-factors in the passing game. Averaging 3 to 4+ targets per game isn't.

"they win 5 games" ... I'd bet over 6.5, but who knows (won 8 last year... defense allowed 9th fewest points, and offense could surprise with improved o-line, better qb play, and phenom Bowers as Te). Losing isn't great for Rbs, but not the death nail either. Barkley finished 9th in ppg, Connor finished 13th ppg, Brian Robinson finished 16th ppg. Those guys played for teams with 6 or fewer wins. In 2022, Raiders only won 6 with Jacobs finishing 3rd ppg.

[weepaws 2,693]

Last season six teams won less than 7 games.   Chargers, Titans, Gmen, Redskins, Zona, Panthers.  

Only three of those six teams had a rb receive more than 220 rush att, Henry, Barkley, one cannot compare Z White two those two Rbs, the other is Hubbard of the Panthers.  

I can understand what TB is saying, I said I like Z White, I can see him landing inside a rb2 point total, but I do have concerns about the Raiders being a horrible team, with a rookie head coach.  

[GobbleDog 890]

26 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Last season six teams won less than 7 games.   Chargers, Titans, Gmen, Redskins, Zona, Panthers.  

Only three of those six teams had a rb receive more than 220 rush att, Henry, Barkley, one cannot compare Z White two those two Rbs, the other is Hubbard of the Panthers.  

Half. Would've been 4 out of 6, but Conner missed four games (had 208 carries). Redskins didn't do it because Brian Robinson missed two games, they had 3 Rbs sharing carries, and a whopping 20% of all passes went to Rbs. Chargers split backfield and Ekler had 74 targets on top of his 179 carries.

Why can't we compare White to Henry and Barkley?  Those teams committed to bell-cow work, even though the Rbs finished with just 4.1 and 3.9 ypc respectively. Seems like a perfect comparison.

I'm not seeing the implied correlation between bad teams and limited carries for the lead Rb. I'm more concerned with a team's commitment to bell-cow usage and no real rushing competition - not even from the Qb. Even if teams are losing late in games, might that just mean more Rb receptions?

Bad team = worthless Rb ... too simplistic.

[TBayXXXVII 2,289]

1 hour ago, GobbleDog said:

"12 carries per game" ... Really low estimate with Antonio Pierce as coach - president of the bell-cow conservation society. Went on record about wanting his back hitting "the magic number of 20 carries". Coached the final nine games as interim with lead back averaging 20.4 carries. White averaged 21 per game with Jacobs out. Raiders beefed up o-line spending a 1st rd pick on Te, then a 2nd and 3rd on linemen, and signed a free-agent center.

You clearly skipped over things because I did say I exaggerated that number because I do think the Raiders will be a really, really, bad team.  Like terrible.  I think Minshew and/or O'Connell aren't going to be good enough to get this team a good chunk of wins.  I also noted that with 12 carries, I said he could get 6 ypc, which is obviously absurd on the high end.  If he gets 17 carries, which I think is reasonable (on the high side though), and gets 4.3 ypc, that's about the same total as 12 carries and 6 ypc, so really, stressing on this is rather moot.  As I said, my point on the 12, was more along the lines of, I think this team will be really bad and they won't run as much as the team wants, because they'll be losing a lot.  Wanting to run and having the chance to do it, are 2 different things.  Yeah, I know what White did without Jacobs, I also know that they did that a lot out of necessity because they didn't have much else.  LOL "beefed up o-line spending".  They signed 2 guys to 1-year deals totaling less than $5M.  You're hanging White's potential on the Raiders hitting on a 2nd and 3rd round rookie?  While you're talking about OLine spending, remember they also brought in Alexander Mattison and they still have Abdullah.  Look, Pierce can "want" a bell cow, but he doesn't have one on the roster.  Even if White IS a bell cow, they won't be able to use him that way because they're going to be down early and a lot.

Quote

"Non-factor in passing game" ... White averaged over 3 targets per game with Jacobs out. Jacobs himself averaged over 4 targets per game. Players like Gus Edwards/Travis Henry are non-factors in the passing game. Averaging 3 to 4+ targets per game isn't.

Both Mattison and Abdullah will get more targets than White, I have no doubts on that.  Like I said, if he averages more than a catch a game, I'll be surprised.  Notice in my projection though, I gave him credit for 1.5 receptions per game.  I was being generous.

Quote

"they win 5 games" ... I'd bet over 6.5, but who knows (won 8 last year... defense allowed 9th fewest points, and offense could surprise with improved o-line, better qb play, and phenom Bowers as Te). Losing isn't great for Rbs, but not the death nail either. Barkley finished 9th in ppg, Connor finished 13th ppg, Brian Robinson finished 16th ppg. Those guys played for teams with 6 or fewer wins. In 2022, Raiders only won 6 with Jacobs finishing 3rd ppg.

I agree, but White isn't Barkley, Connor, or Robinson when it comes to pass catching production.  Barkley had over 40 receptions and 4 TD's receiving (in 14 games).  White isn't getting 40 and he's might only total 4 TD's.  Connor had 9 total TD's, as I said, I don't think White gets more than 4.  Keep in mind, what Connor did was in 13 games, not 17.  Robinson got 5.6 fpg from receiving... White may get half of that.

[GobbleDog 890]

6 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

LOL "beefed up o-line spending". 

Even if White IS a bell cow, they won't be able to use him that way because they're going to be down early and a lot. 

Shows commitment to running game. Bowers will do his share of run-blocking and has skills for it. That 2nd rounder out of Oregon is a run-block specialist. Throw in a 3rd rd lineman and free-agents...  o-line should be stout.

Again with the "bad team = worthless Rb" theory.  I don't buy it and even I did, I expect the Raiders to be way more competitive.

Can't wait for this season to get going... I got a whole lot of crowing to do! Or eat crow. One or the other.

[weepaws 2,693]

37 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

Half. Would've been 4 out of 6, but Conner missed four games (had 208 carries). Redskins didn't do it because Brian Robinson missed two games, they had 3 Rbs sharing carries, and a whopping 20% of all passes went to Rbs. Chargers split backfield and Ekler had 74 targets on top of his 179 carries.

Why can't we compare White to Henry and Barkley?  Those teams committed to bell-cow work, even though the Rbs finished with just 4.1 and 3.9 ypc respectively. Seems like a perfect comparison.

I'm not seeing the implied correlation between bad teams and limited carries for the lead Rb. I'm more concerned with a team's commitment to bell-cow usage and no real rushing competition - not even from the Qb. Even if teams are losing late in games, might that just mean more Rb receptions?

Bad team = worthless Rb ... too simplistic.

I’m not going to compare White to the talent of Henry and Barkley, But you can.  But again I have him listed as a rb2, but concerns with the fact that the Raiders won’t be that good still on my mind when drafting.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,289]

32 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

Again with the "bad team = worthless Rb" theory.

This is where we have the crux of the disagreement.   What you put isn't entirely my stance.  My stance is: Bad team + limited RB + tough schedule (8th hardest) = Worthless RB.

[jrokh 583]

White will be better than the RB41, that is just meaningless hyperbole...

[IGotWorms 3,759]

Josh Jacobs sucked last year and he was still RB23.

Zamir’s ADP is RB22.

I’d say that’s about right. He probably does not represent a ton of value at his ADP but not a significant risk either.

[Maximum Overkill 1,125]

24 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Josh Jacobs sucked last year and he was still RB23.

Zamir’s ADP is RB22.

I’d say that’s about right. He probably does not represent a ton of value at his ADP but not a significant risk either.

I don't love Zams but I agree, at that ADP he's well worth the risk. 

 

BTW, every player needs a Hockey name