Hard Knocks

[Hardcore troubadour 13,792]

The difference between Jerry Jones and John Mara is bourbon. Two guys that think they are football guys but they aren’t. But I digress. The Odunze kid on Chicago looks like a superstar and has a great head on his shoulders. Watch Chicago find a way to Fock it up. Daboll is immature and I’m down on him. Hopefully he grows up a little. I’m not optimistic. 

[IGotWorms 3,856]

I haven’t watched. How did odunze come up?

[WhiteWonder 2,438]

giants front office looked pretty bad in one episode from what I heard, which is sad because they have final say in what gets shown.

[GutterBoy 2,896]

1 minute ago, WhiteWonder said:

giants front office looked pretty bad in one episode from what I heard, which is sad because they have final say in what gets shown.

from what you heard

From someone who actually watched the show, they didn't look bad.

There was one criticism in that a scout said that Wilkins wasn't great on 3rd down pressure rate when he was last season.  Prior not so much.  Still didn't fit what they really wanted in Burns.

[GutterBoy 2,896]

15 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

The difference between Jerry Jones and John Mara is bourbon. Two guys that think they are football guys but they aren’t. But I digress. The Odunze kid on Chicago looks like a superstar and has a great head on his shoulders. Watch Chicago find a way to Fock it up. Daboll is immature and I’m down on him. Hopefully he grows up a little. I’m not optimistic. 

Malik Nabers looks better.  Dabs wanted Nabers.  I love Nabers.  Maybe you should go buy a Dallas jersey.

[WhiteWonder 2,438]

2 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

from what you heard

From someone who actually watched the show, they didn't look bad.

There was one criticism in that a scout said that Wilkins wasn't great on 3rd down pressure rate when he was last season.  Prior not so much.  Still didn't fit what they really wanted in Burns.

yes. from what I heard from multiple espn NY hosts. Guys who I consider to be more in the know than the average fan.

notice how i said from what I heard. I did not try to pass it off as first hand knowledge. 

you are a bitter little man 

[HellToupee 1,137]

5 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Malik Nabers looks better.  Dabs wanted Nabers.  I love Nabers.  Maybe you should go buy a Dallas jersey.

You know you don’t always have to be a pusspot

[GutterBoy 2,896]

Overall the show has been very entertaining and gives an inside look at the offseason process and my favorite team 10/10 will continue to watch.

[Hardcore troubadour 13,792]

24 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

I haven’t watched. How did odunze come up?

They showed some of the giants interviews at the combine. Odunze was so impressive.  Not that I’m not happy about Nabers. You’re allowed to say nice things about players on other teams. Unless you have HTDS like Gutterboy.  

[Hardcore troubadour 13,792]

16 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Overall the show has been very entertaining and gives an inside look at the offseason process and my favorite team 10/10 will continue to watch.

Can’t wait for your scouting report after you watch a practice in shorts and shells. “Nabers can’t be covered” “Burns can’t be blocked”.  Book it. 

[IGotWorms 3,856]

16 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

They showed some of the giants interviews at the combine. Odunze was so impressive.  Not that I’m not happy about Nabers. 

Ah, thanks. Sounds interesting, I might have to watch it

[Hardcore troubadour 13,792]

19 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Ah, thanks. Sounds interesting, I might have to watch it

Marv Harrison Jr came off great too. Nabers has some edge to him, which is fine.  Didn’t come off as a dik.  And the QB on Washington is sharp. 

[HTH 82]

I'm lukewarm on  Schoen.

High on Daboll.

Go Giants!

[Hardcore troubadour 13,792]

2 minutes ago, HTH said:

I'm lukewarm on  Schoen.

High on Daboll.

Go Giants!

I’m the opposite. It’s too bad that Schoen has to do a tap dance to make Mara happy. 

[seafoam1 2,417]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

The difference between Jerry Jones and John Mara is bourbon. Two guys that think they are football guys but they aren’t. But I digress. The Odunze kid on Chicago looks like a superstar and has a great head on his shoulders. Watch Chicago find a way to Fock it up. Daboll is immature and I’m down on him. Hopefully he grows up a little. I’m not optimistic. 

He really does. With Moore and Allen and Kmet on the field he won't see 140 targets, but in due time, he will be the man. What a great class of receivers. this last draft. 

[IGotWorms 3,856]

9 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Marv Harrison Jr came off great too. Nabers has some edge to him, which is fine.  Didn’t come off as a dik.  And the QB on Washington is sharp. 

Thanks for the info. I’m pretty high on Daniels in fantasy this year. Got him as my QB13 and trying to figure out who to bump to move him up a few more spots 

[listen2me 23 1,697]

Odunze may be safer but I like Nabers.  Both may be real good.  Nabers has special talents if he maximizes his potential.  

Nothing matters much until they find a QB.  A ton changes from now and over the course if the college football season.  But on paper the QB class isn't all that exciting.    

[seafoam1 2,417]

1 minute ago, listen2me 23 said:

Odunze may be safer but I like Nabers.  Both may be real good.  Nabers has special talents if he maximizes his potential.  

Nothing matters much until they find a QB.  A ton changes from now and over the course if the college football season.  But on paper the QB class isn't all that exciting.    

People study QBs for a living their whole lives and can't pick a functional QB. It's all luck. 

[MDC 6,529]

Hindsight is 20/20 etc. but the Giants would have been better off letting Judge run the team into the ground for one more season before blowing it up. They could have cut bait on both Jones and Saquon then and started over. Instead they won a playoff game and gave DJ a long term deal. Now they’re in that weird spot of being pretty bad but probably not bad enough to draft a franchise QB. Assuming they win 6-7 this season at most you have to figure the GM and coach will be on the hot seat.

[GutterBoy 2,896]

6 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Thanks for the info. I’m pretty high on Daniels in fantasy this year. Got him as my QB13 and trying to figure out who to bump to move him up a few more spots 

He should be ahead of Tua, Goff, Purdy, Dak and Burrow.

[listen2me 23 1,697]

11 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

People study QBs for a living their whole lives and can't pick a functional QB. It's all luck. 

Not all luck.  But yeah a good amount.   Either way some QB classes have more talent than other years.  Same as all positions.  On paper at least.  

[GutterBoy 2,896]

4 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Not all luck.  But yeah a good amount.   Either way some QB classes have more talent than other years.  Same as all positions.  On paper at least.  

There is some, but what is most overlooked is the situation the player is drafted into and the coaches that develop the player.  You don't just draft a QB and he's good or not good.  He needs to be coached and developed and put into a winning situation.

[listen2me 23 1,697]

22 minutes ago, MDC said:

Hindsight is 20/20 etc. but the Giants would have been better off letting Judge run the team into the ground for one more season before blowing it up. They could have cut bait on both Jones and Saquon then and started over. Instead they won a playoff game and gave DJ a long term deal. Now they’re in that weird spot of being pretty bad but probably not bad enough to draft a franchise QB. Assuming they win 6-7 this season at most you have to figure the GM and coach will be on the hot seat.

Teams surprise each year.  But looking at their schedule it isn't that favorable for a 3rd place schedule.  Outside of the Skins games and Carolina there isn't much wiggle rooms.  Games like Colts at out at Seahawks become some of their managble games.  

Id be surprised if they got to 6.   I do have to remind myself it is a 17 game schedule however.   

[listen2me 23 1,697]

1 minute ago, GutterBoy said:

There is some, but what is most overlooked is the situation the player is drafted into and the coaches that develop the player.  You don't just draft a QB and he's good or not good.  He needs to be coached and developed and put into a winning situation.

Oh for sure.  But I feel that is cherry picked.  Fields got a pass by the same people who wrote off others with terrible coaching.    Not all 1st rounders with good cosching would have been good.  But I agree with the point.  

Some front offices are hopeless in helping a franchise QB out.  Look at Carolina.   No one wants to give Young a pass already.   Yet thats a bad situation and they gave up picks to get there.  

[GutterBoy 2,896]

Just now, listen2me 23 said:

Oh for sure.  But I feel that is cherry picked.  Fields got a pass by the same people who wrote off others with terrible coaching.    Not all 1st rounders with good cosching would have been good.  But I agree with the point.  

Some front offices are hopeless in helping a franchise QB out.  Look at Carolina.   No one wants to give Young a pass already.   Yet thats a bad situation and they gave up picks to get there.  

Young was not #1 overall worthy, but he's not terrible either.  Dave Cannales is in Carolina now so expect Young to have a decent season.

Fields is just not a good QB, was happy the giants traded that pick to the Bears.

[listen2me 23 1,697]

So to relate that to thr Giants....its basically hopeless who they draft unless they gut it?  I wasn't high on Stroud.  But if you put Stroud with Daboll they arent on a nice track?   

[GutterBoy 2,896]

2 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

So to relate that to thr Giants....its basically hopeless who they draft unless they gut it?  I wasn't high on Stroud.  But if you put Stroud with Daboll they arent on a nice track?   

I don't think it's hopeless.  They won a playoff game with Jones, that should be the expectation again this year.

The O Line has to play better, it should.  Is Stroud a better QB than Jones, yes.

If Jones sucks this year while the line plays well, then draft a QB next year, trade up if needed.

Pretty simple.

[seafoam1 2,417]

25 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Not all luck.  But yeah a good amount.   Either way some QB classes have more talent than other years.  Same as all positions.  On paper at least.  

True. Wasn't it '83 that was the biggie? 

They need to get rid of the wonderlic. What did Stroud have? A 4 or something like that?

[listen2me 23 1,697]

Just now, GutterBoy said:

I don't think it's hopeless.  They won a playoff game with Jones, that should be the expectation again this year.

The O Line has to play better, it should.  Is Stroud a better QB than Jones, yes.

If Jones sucks this year while the line plays well, then draft a QB next year, trade up if needed.

Pretty simple.

I understand the process going forward.  

Anyone with eyes understands Jones isn't very good.  At best startable at a number hes not worth.  He would have to really impress this year.

To circle back to my on paper not an exciting QB class....it can be very much a crapshoot.  But a team picking 3rd or 5th many times has to settle.   (If there isn't a FA/trade option).   So in the end you end up getting your 3rd guy just because you are pressed up into a corner.   That or you trade assets to go up to 1 and then handicap yourself in surrounding him with a team.  

Sometimes your first choice ends up not the right call.  But if you have to sit there at 5 and settle for the noodle arm with limited mobility..its not a great spot.  

Im not big on RB.  But when you have a passing game like the Giants losing a Barkley hits a bit harder.  End of the day they have a what 27 year old Jones at QB....a Nabers as a rookie isn't going to just turn it as good as he may end up being.  

Not sure on the defense.  Maybe they surprise a bit more than I imagine.  

[listen2me 23 1,697]

Just now, seafoam1 said:

True. Wasn't it '83 that was the biggie? 

Yea the year of the QB.  And its not always those years end up living up.  But there is more depth.   Some years there wasn't a QB in the 1st.   One where EJ Manuel goes 16th to the Bills.  

A class of 5 1st rounders going high maybe doesn't translate perfectly.   But at least you have options.  

[IGotWorms 3,856]

35 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

He should be ahead of Tua, Goff, Purdy, Dak and Burrow.

Definitely ahead of the first two and I want to move him up past Purdy. Maybe burrow too though that seems bold. Not dak though 

[listen2me 23 1,697]

Giants lost one of thr best safties in the game......to the Packers

[listen2me 23 1,697]

2 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Definitely ahead of the first two and I want to move him up past Purdy. Maybe burrow too though that seems bold. Not dak though 

You are putting him there and picking him there?   Lol

I understand thr upside with running.  But good chance guy is benched at some point.  At least a ton higher than anyone else you take in that area.  

[Hardcore troubadour 13,792]

21 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Young was not #1 overall worthy, but he's not terrible either.  Dave Cannales is in Carolina now so expect Young to have a decent season.

Fields is just not a good QB, was happy the giants traded that pick to the Bears.

It would have been better if they kept it and drafted Parsons.  Stick around kid. I’ll learn ya some stuff. 

[seafoam1 2,417]

2 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Giants lost one of thr best safties in the game......to the Packers

The nfc north could be one of the toughest divisions this year. 

[IGotWorms 3,856]

1 minute ago, listen2me 23 said:

You are putting him there and picking him there?   Lol

I understand thr upside with running.  But good chance guy is benched at some point.  At least a ton higher than anyone else you take in that area.  

There’s a chance he’s benched and there’s a chance he finishes top 3. Definitely safer picks there which is why I do have him behind Purdy and burrow at the moment

[listen2me 23 1,697]

4 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

There’s a chance he’s benched and there’s a chance he finishes top 3. Definitely safer picks there which is why I do have him behind Purdy and burrow at the moment

Yeah I guess if you are taking him last QB to start in thr league then there isn't much risk.  If he plays the games he may end up ok with running stats.  I could also see 1st round of playoffs he runs for 80 but has 120 2 picks and a fumble to end your season.  

[GutterBoy 2,896]

5 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Definitely ahead of the first two and I want to move him up past Purdy. Maybe burrow too though that seems bold. Not dak though 

I wanna see Burrow throw before I consider him.  That wrist injury has me nervous.  Also Dak, IMO, takes a step back this year.  Their schedule second half of the season, when he put up huge numbers, will be much more difficult.  Give me Daniels who can run in a Kliff Kingsbury offense any day.  Kyler Murray was QB7 his rookie year. 

[listen2me 23 1,697]

5 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

The nfc north could be one of the toughest divisions this year. 

Similar to the AFC North.   Just several quality teams.  

Lets see what Chicago actually does first...

[seafoam1 2,417]

1 minute ago, listen2me 23 said:

Similar to the AFC North.   Just several quality teams.  

Lets see what Chicago actually does first...

Well, their defense was top 5 the second half of last year, and their offense is pretty loaded.

Only questions are QB and OC for Chicago. 

Minnesota QB questions. But I think all 4 teams have solid foundations with Detroit being the favorite.