Sonya Massey - black woman shot by white police officer in her home

[Strike 4,389]

That's ridiculous.   I saw nothing she did to escalate the situation.  And there is really no way from the distance she was at that she was going to be able to throw that boiling water, assuming it was boiling, with enough force to do anything of significance to either cop.    She was a frail old lady.  Hope this guy goes away for a long time.  I side with cops in most of these cases but this is one where there is no way to justify that cops actions. 

[Strike 4,389]

4 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Once again, we have to remind people that trained professionals do not take non-lethal shots. They are trained to take down the threat. And that is typically center mass on a person's body.

Hand Guns are notoriously inaccurate so shooting for a smaller Target like a head or a leg is just asking for trouble and may just put your life at risk. 

No one ever takes a non-lethal shot when taking down a threat. Your life depends on it.

Didn't he shoot her in the head?   And let's be real.  In THIS case, aiming for something else other than a kill shot would NOT have put his life at risk.  She would have dropped the pot if he'd just shot BESIDE her. 

[Hawkeye21 2,075]

13 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Once again, we have to remind people that trained professionals do not take non-lethal shots. They are trained to take down the threat. And that is typically center mass on a person's body.

Hand Guns are notoriously inaccurate so shooting for a smaller Target like a head or a leg is just asking for trouble and may just put your life at risk. 

No one ever takes a non-lethal shot when taking down a threat. Your life depends on it.

Dude shot her in the focking face right after he told her that's what he was going to do.

[Hardcore troubadour 13,570]

It’s not good. But it’s not murder. That kind of talk doesn’t help.  

[Strike 4,389]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

It’s not good. But it’s not murder. That kind of talk doesn’t help.  

I'm good with calling this one murder. 

[IGotWorms 3,759]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

It’s not good. But it’s not murder. That kind of talk doesn’t help.  

He’s been charged with murder one. Which kinda stood out to me because usually that has to be premeditated. But apparently not under Illinois law, it seems like their murder one is everybody else’s murder two.

[Hardcore troubadour 13,570]

Just now, Strike said:

I'm good with calling this one murder. 

Well, it’s not. He needs prison, but for what he did. 

[Hardcore troubadour 13,570]

Just now, IGotWorms said:

He’s been charged with murder one. Which kinda stood out to me because usually that has to be premeditated. But apparently not under Illinois law, it seems like their murder one is everybody else’s murder two.

If that’s the case then I stand corrected. Premeditation is almost always required for a murder 1 charge. 

[easilyscan 610]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned.

Why in the love of God, is a non-lethal weapon not available to all LE officers for situations like this ?

In this instance, when they suspect someone they're dealing with is a little off, they could have something like that ready to go just in case. 

 

[Hardcore troubadour 13,570]

2 minutes ago, easilyscan said:

Apologies if this is already been mentioned.

Why in the love of God, is a non-lethal weapon not available to all LE officers for situations like this ?

In this instance, when they suspect someone they're dealing with is a little off, they could have something like that ready to go just in case. 

 

Most departments issue tasers. On a side note, this is worse than the George Floyd incident, yet it’s not getting near the attention. Weird. 

[The Real timschochet 4,509]

I think the discussion here has been very good, and there’s a lot of thoughtful input, including from some people I normally disagree with on these subjects. 

[MLCKAA 459]

2 hours ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Once again, we have to remind people that trained professionals do not take non-lethal shots. They are trained to take down the threat. And that is typically center mass on a person's body.

Hand Guns are notoriously inaccurate so shooting for a smaller Target like a head or a leg is just asking for trouble and may just put your life at risk. 

No one ever takes a non-lethal shot when taking down a threat. Your life depends on it.

ALL very well understood and acceptable to me the vast majority of the time.  Although rare, there can and should be exceptions.  There were several alternatives in the situation on topic and a non-lethal shot was among them.

[wiffleball 4,725]

Shoulda figured with the boiling water. 

 

Uncle Ben is a Person Of Interest. 

[iam90sbaby 2,256]

Okay I actually just watched the video, that's focked up.  She obviously wasn't a threat whatsoever.

[Reality 2,884]

He's going to jail for a long time, rightfully so.

[LaChup 195]

2 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Most departments issue tasers. On a side note, this is worse than the George Floyd incident, yet it’s not getting near the attention. Weird. 

Don't worry. They are saving the riots until after Trump is elected. Somehow, this will be about him.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,113]

4 hours ago, Strike said:

Didn't he shoot her in the head?   And let's be real.  In THIS case, aiming for something else other than a kill shot would NOT have put his life at risk.  She would have dropped the pot if he'd just shot BESIDE her. 

I didn't watch the video but if he shot her in the head he must have been at very close range.  Typically, you're trained to shoot center-mass and that is where you should be shooting.

Whether it was justified or not I don't know, but I was just commenting on the "do a non-lethal shot".  There is no such thing when using a firearm.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,113]

2 hours ago, MLCKAA said:

ALL very well understood and acceptable to me the vast majority of the time.  Although rare, there can and should be exceptions.  There were several alternatives in the situation on topic and a non-lethal shot was among them.

I'm not arguing, I'm just saying there is no such thing as a "non-lethal shot" when using a firearm.  Any shot can kill you.  

Sorry if it came off that way, but as a person who has trained with firearms, we don't learn or teach "non-lethal shots".  At least not when I went thru training.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,113]

4 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Dude shot her in the focking face right after he told her that's what he was going to do.

If it wasn't the head, it would have been the gut or the chest.  You're missing the point (I've explained above).

[MLCKAA 459]

2 hours ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

I'm not arguing, I'm just saying there is no such thing as a "non-lethal shot" when using a firearm.  Any shot can kill you.  

Sorry if it came off that way, but as a person who has trained with firearms, we don't learn or teach "non-lethal shots".  At least not when I went thru training.

Ok, I see what you mean.  Got it.  Thanks.

[Maximum Overkill 1,125]

2 hours ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

we don't learn or teach "non-lethal shots".  At least not when I went thru training.

That's right. If you discharge your weapon it's to kill. Three shots to the mass, dead in the chest will usually learn em. 

 

[Voltaire 4,780]

That was horrible and totally uncalled for.  Further, leading up to the shooting, the cop had been a prickly jerk the whole time too.

Like Strike, I'm not use to going against the cops but that's where I'm going today. Glad for the body cam footage.

Murder Two.

[peenie 1,744]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8YH2rkSLel/?igsh=Y3QzaXNlZDc4MTk3

[Shooter McGavin 603]

Nice to see people here being objective and correct.  Maybe there is hope we can come together for justice after all.

[Patented Phil 1,092]

11 hours ago, peenie said:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8YH2rkSLel/?igsh=Y3QzaXNlZDc4MTk3

Dumb video.  Average people make lousy evaluators of how to execute “Justice.”  this is how we got the dumb idea to defund the police and have social workers go out on calls. Leave it to the professionals to execute Justice.  If they abuse the power, we have mechanisms to hold them accountable.

[wiffleball 4,725]

22 hours ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Once again, we have to remind people that trained professionals do not take non-lethal shots. They are trained to take down the threat. And that is typically center mass on a person's body.

Hand Guns are notoriously inaccurate so shooting for a smaller Target like a head or a leg is just asking for trouble and may just put your life at risk. 

No one ever takes a non-lethal shot when taking down a threat. Your life depends on it.

Huh. Shooter admitted it was a headshot. 

That's not 'center mass'.

Unless you're taking down Giada De Laurentiis. 

 

 

 

[Sean Mooney 1,457]

A few things to note for me after watching the video:

1.) The woman clearly seems to have some sort of mental issue. They need to recognize there might be an issue there with a person even if it would be unfair for them to fully diagnose it in the moment. Like if you recognize "Something might be off here" that should affect how you handle the situation.

2.) There were two cops. One of them should have taken the pot of water off the stove- especially while she was sitting on the couch. They tell her to go remove it, essentially putting the "weapon" in her own hand.

3.) Pretty sure the language being used is not what a cop is taught as it would do more to escalate the situation than to diffuse it.

4.) He had a taser on him and drew the gun. Once you do that- things are pretty much beyond the point of no return because no one will act rationally when a gun in involved- both suspect and police alike.

5.) Advancing towards her with the pot of water in her hand is also escalating the situation. If you are concerned about burns then move backward from her and to your right to try and get an angle. She wasn't going to throw the water across the room at you.

6.) Not providing medical care after the shot is pretty egregious. Pretty sure even after what is believed to be a kill shot the police are supposed to try and administer aid or assess the health of the victim. This guy just basically said "Let her ##### go"

Either way it's sad for all parties involved. Obviously for Massey as she lost her life and obviously for Grayson as his career is probably over and we don't know if he actually ever received the proper training for the situation he was in.

 

[Sean Mooney 1,457]

On 7/23/2024 at 7:47 AM, RLLD said:

 

Those of us with simple common sense noted that when you assail the police as Democrats have done, there are consequences to that behavior.   As a result, and as we predicted, the police are struggling to recruit.

So alllllll those focking BLM morons have done in their pointless pursuit is make the situation become what they said it was.....when it was not at all that situation....because stupid is as stupid does

 

The left attacks cops unfairly letting the few speak for the group and it ruins recruitment.

The right attacks teachers letting the few speak for the group and it ruins recruitment.

People need to stop painting groups with a broad brush and singularly go after the bad people. 

[Strike 4,389]

One more thing on this.  These situations are why I've advocated for probably close to a decade for mandatory body/car cameras on police.  And if they magically "don't work" during an incident that should be a policy violation subject to discipline up to and including termination of the cop regardless of the outcome of the incident.  And if they don't work that should be construed in the worst possible way for the cop when trying to determine what happened in the incident.  Absent the body camera footage this dooshbag gets away with murder.

[Sean Mooney 1,457]

22 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Well, it’s not. He needs prison, but for what he did. 

Its straight up murder. Call it what it is

[RLLD 3,770]

21 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

The left attacks cops unfairly letting the few speak for the group and it ruins recruitment.

The right attacks teachers letting the few speak for the group and it ruins recruitment.

People need to stop painting groups with a broad brush and singularly go after the bad people. 

Teachers are not the problem, though I allow that politicians tend to like to throw mud on others.  No....its not the teachers, its the parents and their useless offspring that present the problems for schools

[Sean Mooney 1,457]

3 hours ago, RLLD said:

Teachers are not the problem, though I allow that politicians tend to like to throw mud on others.  No....its not the teachers, its the parents and their useless offspring that present the problems for schools

I think a lot of people on the right disagree with you. You can see it in the threads.

[RLLD 3,770]

2 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I think a lot of people on the right disagree with you. You can see it in the threads.

I anticipate there will absolutely be a number who disagree  

I am accustomed to being assailed from both sides of the isle around here.

But I have witnessed the reality.  People do not go into teaching for the money, they have a love for it....a love that is too often diminished by the despicable brats that people are raising.

Low quality people deliver low quality kids who perform poorly.

[Sean Mooney 1,457]

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I anticipate there will absolutely be a number who disagree  

I am accustomed to being assailed from both sides of the isle around here.

But I have witnessed the reality.  People do not go into teaching for the money, they have a love for it....a love that is too often diminished by the despicable brats that people are raising.

Low quality people deliver low quality kids who perform poorly.

I will say this. There are dummies who teach who think they have to promote causes (really like there are in every single walk of life). Those people ruin things for the good teachers. 

 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,113]

4 hours ago, RLLD said:

Teachers are not the problem, though I allow that politicians tend to like to throw mud on others.  No....its not the teachers, its the parents and their useless offspring that present the problems for schools

I think teachers are 25-35 percent of the problem.  How many videos do you need to see of the purple-haired, nose-ring rainbow mob teachers before you realize that those teachers need to be jettisoned?  There is literally thousands to tens of thousands of those videos.  That ain't no small number.

[RLLD 3,770]

29 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I will say this. There are dummies who teach who think they have to promote causes (really like there are in every single walk of life). Those people ruin things for the good teachers. 

 

I think that is fair.....I mean, not every teacher is going to be up to the task.  Some will be better than others. We are not all equally positioned with talent.

[Hawkeye21 2,075]

54 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

I think teachers are 25-35 percent of the problem.  How many videos do you need to see of the purple-haired, nose-ring rainbow mob teachers before you realize that those teachers need to be jettisoned?  There is literally thousands to tens of thousands of those videos.  That ain't no small number.

I wonder what percentage of teachers are like that.  I don't think it's a very large percentage.

[Sean Mooney 1,457]

5 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I wonder what percentage of teachers are like that.  I don't think it's a very large percentage.

There are roughly 3.2 million full time teachers in the US.

 

If there were say 500K of those videos in one year that would be like 15% of the profession. And there aren't that many of those videos in a given year. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,113]

6 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

There are roughly 3.2 million full time teachers in the US.

 

If there were say 500K of those videos in one year that would be like 15% of the profession. And there aren't that many of those videos in a given year. 

I'm not just talking about the ones we see, I'm also talking about the ones we don't see online but either sympathize or do the same thing in their classroom.  that's easily plenty more.  25% is the minimum.

[peenie 1,744]

5 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

A few things to note for me after watching the video:

1.) The woman clearly seems to have some sort of mental issue. They need to recognize there might be an issue there with a person even if it would be unfair for them to fully diagnose it in the moment. Like if you recognize "Something might be off here" that should affect how you handle the situation.

2.) There were two cops. One of them should have taken the pot of water off the stove- especially while she was sitting on the couch. They tell her to go remove it, essentially putting the "weapon" in her own hand.

3.) Pretty sure the language being used is not what a cop is taught as it would do more to escalate the situation than to diffuse it.

4.) He had a taser on him and drew the gun. Once you do that- things are pretty much beyond the point of no return because no one will act rationally when a gun in involved- both suspect and police alike.

5.) Advancing towards her with the pot of water in her hand is also escalating the situation. If you are concerned about burns then move backward from her and to your right to try and get an angle. She wasn't going to throw the water across the room at you.

6.) Not providing medical care after the shot is pretty egregious. Pretty sure even after what is believed to be a kill shot the police are supposed to try and administer aid or assess the health of the victim. This guy just basically said "Let her ##### go"

Either way it's sad for all parties involved. Obviously for Massey as she lost her life and obviously for Grayson as his career is probably over and we don't know if he actually ever received the proper training for the situation he was in.

 

I watched the video again too and I tried my best to put myself in his shoes and not see him as the villain. I did note that she didn't just turn off the boiling pot of water, she picked it up. Was it boiling spaghetti and she was planning to drain off the water into a colander that was in the sink? Why did she move with the pot of boiling water and did that movement make him think she was going to throw it at him? When she rebuked him, did he think she was calling him a demon and thought she was going to throw the water on him? 

This still doesn't absolve him from murder, I'm just trying to get into his mind. He was way too aggressive towards her. 

Even if she was mentally ill, she didn't deserve a bullet. What if she was drunk? I mean, people don't always act perfectly normal. 

I'll say it again as I've stated over the years, we need a first responder that doesn't involve guns. We don't need police with guns to pull over a car that ran a stop sign, has a taillight out or is driving over the speed limit. We don't need police with guns to help a family with an adult that is having an episode or mental breakdown, we don't need police with guns to respond to a noise complaint or an intruder that isn't currently intruding.