Port Strike Thread

[IndyColtsFan 325]

This topic deserves its own non-gay thread.

We haven't seen anything like this in almost a half century, so it needs its own thread outside the one with all the homophobia.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/port-strike-east-and-gulf-coast-dockworkers-international-longshoremens-association/

I can see both sides' point here. 

One one hand:

Quote

"USMX brought on this strike when they decided to hold firm to foreign owned Ocean Carriers earning billion-dollar profits at United States ports, but not compensate the American ILA longshore workers who perform the labor that brings them their wealth," ILA President Harold Daggett said in a statement posted on social media. 

On the other:

Quote

Members of the union make a base salary of about $81,000 per year, but some can pull in over $200,000 annually with large amounts of overtime.

These guys already make decent money, but they're also complaining about automatic equipment replacing their jobs and demanded a ban on that equipment, which seems unreasonable.

The strike caused the market to slip today, but retailers say that with the strike looming, they stocked up in advance of the holiday season, so the immediate impact will be minimal.

However, a prolonged strike could have a significant impact.

A president has a lot of power here and can order workers back to their jobs while the collective bargaining continues. The union has asked him to stay out of it.

 

[Alias Detective 1,312]

They want over a 60% pay increase.  Who in their right minds think that is ok?

[Hawkeye21 2,208]

1 minute ago, Alias Detective said:

They want over a 60% pay increase.  Who in their right minds think that is ok?

Have to start high in order to negotiate, right?

[Alias Detective 1,312]

The USMX has complained the union is not negotiating in good faith, saying the two sides haven’t met in person since June. The USMX said Monday it had increased its offer to wage increases of more than 50% over the proposed six-year contract. Daggett on Wednesday told CNN the union is seeking a $5-an-hour pay increase each year over six years, with top pay climbing from $39 an hour to $69. That would equate to a 77% pay hike over the life of the contract.

 

[IndyColtsFan 325]

11 minutes ago, Alias Detective said:

The USMX has complained the union is not negotiating in good faith, saying the two sides haven’t met in person since June. The USMX said Monday it had increased its offer to wage increases of more than 50% over the proposed six-year contract. Daggett on Wednesday told CNN the union is seeking a $5-an-hour pay increase each year over six years, with top pay climbing from $39 an hour to $69. That would equate to a 77% pay hike over the life of the contract.

 

I get that they want a piece of the pie, but what they're asking for seems ridiculous. 

[Sean Mooney 1,815]

The automation stuff seems to be a big sticking point as well. 

[Alias Detective 1,312]

10 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

The automation stuff seems to be a big sticking point as well. 

Slow progress, efficiency and injury for what reason again? 

[Engorgeous George 1,774]

Remember when Stevedores loading and unloading ships with cargo nets was a thing?  They are gone replaced by longshoremen who too will someday be mostly replaced, this time by automation.  As cargo has shifted to uniform containers the ground was set for much more automation. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,043]

nobody is afraid of gay homos

 

[Strike 4,800]

Let's find out what Joe Biden thinks of the strike:

 

[supermike80 1,599]

I read somewhere the union wants to ban any and all automation.   That seems unreasonable.   I mean as a laborer I understand, but boy is that a big ask.

[Sean Mooney 1,815]

 

7 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I read somewhere the union wants to ban any and all automation.   That seems unreasonable.   I mean as a laborer I understand, but boy is that a big ask.

Yeah it is hard to justify as a business because you know long run you will most likely save money in automation (although we are seeing that automation is just shifting labor to other places in organizations) but to give a 50% raise on top of getting rid of all automation is kind of crazy. 

[Strike 4,800]

Just now, Sean Mooney said:

He has also said he is not in favor of getting involved and said that whatever deal they can work out will be better than him trying to force something. He has also said he will shy from using the power in the Taft-Huntley Act.

This isn't a gotcha. He has commented on it for weeks. Also, both sides have asked him to stay out to avoid politicizing it and he is acquiescing to that for a period of time.

Yeah it is hard to justify as a business because you know long run you will most likely save money in automation (although we are seeing that automation is just shifting labor to other places in organizations) but to give a 50% raise on top of getting rid of all automation is kind of crazy. 

Talk about missing the point 

[Strike 4,800]

6 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I read somewhere the union wants to ban any and all automation.   That seems unreasonable.   I mean as a laborer I understand, but boy is that a big ask.

I read somewhere they make half as much money as their counterparts on the west coast.  I think that's the biggest issue.  If they could get a comparable pay scale I suspect the other issues could be negotiated.

[Sean Mooney 1,815]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

Talk about missing the point 

Oof...I missed the Yemen part of the tweet somehow. Although now I want to see all these questions asked to politicians with weird little tags on them to try and trip them all up. 
 

[supermike80 1,599]

19 minutes ago, Strike said:

I read somewhere they make half as much money as their counterparts on the west coast.  I think that's the biggest issue.  If they could get a comparable pay scale I suspect the other issues could be negotiated.

They make 100k and thats HALF?   Wow.

But didn't the west coast strike too?

[Strike 4,800]

4 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

They make 100k and thats HALF?   Wow.

But didn't the west coast strike too?

Yep.  So this is kind of to catch up to them:

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/west-coast-dockworkers-making-200k-demand-higher-pay

[HellToupee 1,252]

Not sure how I feel about this right now. If it is about job automation and. Job preservation then now is probably a better time for them to strike than later in the midst of automation. Fight it now or later, now is probably a much better position for them than later. The end result will probably hasten the automation.

 

[Fnord 1,664]

1 hour ago, Alias Detective said:

They want over a 60% pay increase.  Who in their right minds think that is ok?

This is SOP for union negotiations, I'm finding. @Hawkeye21 was right, it's a negotiating tactic. It's doubtful that they have any intention of realistically getting close to that number. This is one of the things I hate about unions.

[Fnord 1,664]

7 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Not sure how I feel about this right now. If it is about job automation and. Job preservation then now is probably a better time for them to strike than later in the midst of automation. Fight it now or later, now is probably a much better position for them than later. The end result will probably hasten the automation.

 

Yup. Ultimately those companies are going to do whatever they have to in order to maintain profits, and automation will be the answer.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,163]

Anyway it can be blamed on Trump? 

[easilyscan 715]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Anyway it can be blamed on Trump? 

I'm sure they're working on it as we type.

[Fnord 1,664]

4 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Anyway it can be blamed on Trump? 

Already done in my mind.

[supermike80 1,599]

6 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Anyway it can be blamed on Trump? 

Well....CNN is making sure Trump gets blamed for the Israeli war.

"Ex-President Donald Trump indulged and encouraged the most radical of Netanyahu’s policies — further politicizing the US-Israel relationship. And pro-Trump Republicans are goading him to go further — at least partly to weaken Biden and his chosen successor, Harris."

[IndyColtsFan 325]

28 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Anyway it can be blamed on Trump? 

Ultimately the blame might fall on Biden/Harris if this thing drags on, unless Trump wins and it drags well into his second term.

Wouldn't surprise me if came out and said he'd end the strike immediately, which he actually could.

[BunnysBastatrds 2,127]

Union negotiators are shrewd businessmen that most want every drop and enjoy the win. I don’t like them, but I respect them.

[Fnord 1,664]

24 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Well....CNN is making sure Trump gets blamed for the Israeli war.

"Ex-President Donald Trump indulged and encouraged the most radical of Netanyahu’s policies — further politicizing the US-Israel relationship. And pro-Trump Republicans are goading him to go further — at least partly to weaken Biden and his chosen successor, Harris."

Is any of this false? Trump absolutely provoked Muslims in that region, especially with the Jerusalem decision. Is CNN blaming him for it, or pointing these things out in a broader context?

[Hardcore troubadour 14,163]

Did Biden tell them don’t? 

[Alias Detective 1,312]

They were offered over 50% increase.  Nope, we demand over 60%.  I really hate unions. @Fnord

[HellToupee 1,252]

20 minutes ago, BunnysBastatrds said:

Union negotiators are shrewd businessmen that most want every drop and enjoy the win. I don’t like them, but I respect them.

Get a load of this guy

 

[Fnord 1,664]

2 hours ago, Alias Detective said:

They were offered over 50% increase.  Nope, we demand over 60%.  I really hate unions. @Fnord

I struggle with it because I know a lot of people in the trades that love their unions and what they provide. I am completely on board with the concept and when a shop votes to become union they have good reasons.

But godam if they don't suck sweaty hairy balls to deal with from the management side. From my perspective, they absolutely are not always working in their member's best interests. In an established, good company, they are a labor albatross directly inhibiting productivity and worker satisfaction. 

[Strike 4,800]

Kamalatoe supports the striking workers so I guess she owns any economic effects of this strike. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,043]

20 hours ago, Fnord said:

I struggle with it because I know a lot of people in the trades that love their unions and what they provide. I am completely on board with the concept and when a shop votes to become union they have good reasons.

But godam if they don't suck sweaty hairy balls to deal with from the management side. From my perspective, they absolutely are not always working in their member's best interests. In an established, good company, they are a labor albatross directly inhibiting productivity and worker satisfaction. 

were on the same page, I like unions if its just the workers unionizing, but it seems like the "management" of the union is always on a different page

 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,043]

23 hours ago, Alias Detective said:

They were offered over 50% increase.  Nope, we demand over 60%.  I really hate unions. @Fnord

id negotiate this back as follows

you get 40% then

realistically if I offer 50% and you ask for 60% as a business owner, I comeback with a 40% offer and 2% increase over 10 years, they get their 60% but its a gradual ramp up

 

[Fnord 1,664]

20 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

were on the same page, I like unions if its just the workers unionizing, but it seems like the "management" of the union is always on a different page

 

Most of the people I manage are union. Most of them hate the union.

My personnel are at two different sites, on two different 3- year contracts. One was settled two years ago and they did a good job getting better pay. I loved it, employees were actually satisfied. Now this year, the SAME UNION, with structure for the 2nd contract already in place, urged their members to vote for arbitration after a couple months of negotiating. Now the first contract will come up before the second is resolved. Staff in both locations are doing the same focking work, and one group is getting paid about 20% more than the other. The ones getting underpaid now have to wait for months for resolution. People are livid. It's absurd.

[Alias Detective 1,312]

19 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Most of the people I manage are union. Most of them hate the union.

My personnel are at two different sites, on two different 3- year contracts. One was settled two years ago and they did a good job getting better pay. I loved it, employees were actually satisfied. Now this year, the SAME UNION, with structure for the 2nd contract already in place, urged their members to vote for arbitration after a couple months of negotiating. Now the first contract will come up before the second is resolved. Staff in both locations are doing the same focking work, and one group is getting paid about 20% more than the other. The ones getting underpaid now have to wait for months for resolution. People are livid. It's absurd.

Unions have their place.  Many want the most for less

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,043]

19 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Most of the people I manage are union. Most of them hate the union.

My personnel are at two different sites, on two different 3- year contracts. One was settled two years ago and they did a good job getting better pay. I loved it, employees were actually satisfied. Now this year, the SAME UNION, with structure for the 2nd contract already in place, urged their members to vote for arbitration after a couple months of negotiating. Now the first contract will come up before the second is resolved. Staff in both locations are doing the same focking work, and one group is getting paid about 20% more than the other. The ones getting underpaid now have to wait for months for resolution. People are livid. It's absurd.

the only union I have ever been a part of was the post office, that was a good union, of course everyone of the managers/reps were voted in and actual mail carriers and served 2 year terms (no limits)

 

[HellToupee 1,252]

1 minute ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

the only union I have ever been a part of was the post office, that was a good union, of course everyone of the managers/reps were voted in and actual mail carriers and served 2 year terms (no limits)

 

Dealt with the nalc all of my  career in one form or another . Most , probably 70% are good people and workers and 30% layabouts 

[Engorgeous George 1,774]

They are crippling the country to have their demand met that their antiquated jobs be preserved institutionalizing inefficiency and making American ports less competitive than worldwide alternatives.  Were I President I would go past invoking Taft-Hartly.  I would declare the ports being open a national security matter and would bring in national guardsmen to operrate the ports.  I would encourage congress to expedite automation of the ports to increase their efficiency.  I would reprogram infrastructure money to get this going.  I would prioritize that.  I would tell these misguided idiots they cannot hold the economy of the country hostagde to save outmoded jobs.  I would offer them some solace.  I would encourage congress to program money to retrain them to jobs relevant to the economy.  Many could be trained to operate the new automated equipment.  In addition I would encourage installation of additional automation, not to move the cargo, but to inspect it.  I would train some of these folks to be port security and customs inspectors, a dangerously overlooked need in a volitile world.  The rest of the displaced workers I would invite to apply to become border security officers around the countyry.  I would prioritize their hiring over others, for a short time. I might ev en encourage a small relocation fee be paid to those who would have to move.  

 

These monkeys are buggy whip makers in an automotive world.  They think they can hold us all economic hostages.  They should be soundly and immediately disabused of that plan.

[Sean Mooney 1,815]

An agreement has been reached:

"The agreement on wages amounts to a $4-per-hour raise for each year of the six-year contract, a source with knowledge of the negotiations told CNN. That amounts to a first year raise of just over 10% of the current contract’s top pay of $39 an hour. With the five subsequent pay hikes it would raise wages by 62% over the life of the contract"

 

Good for them I suppose