Discussion of Concerns for Trump Presidency

[Death 143]

Trumpo wants to do away with Senate confirmation process.

Here we go!

https://www.vox.com/politics/384356/trump-recess-appointments-explained-senate-confirmation-thune-scott-cornyn-cabinet

[nobody 2,468]

2 hours ago, Death said:

https://www.foxnews.com/video/6364549346112

Here we go. Trumpo's border czar telling governors who are resistant to his deportation plans to "get the hell out of the way."

So much for those states' rights!

Damn, rusty, you still think immigration is a state issue?  Even your wife must know that's the purview of the feds.

[jerryskids 6,173]

56 minutes ago, Death said:

MAGA:

Abortion: It's up to the states. 

Deporting illegals: It's up to the feds. Get out of their way! 

Wut?  The feds have been quite clear that border control and deporting illegal aliens is a federal issue.  Have you been drinking?   

[SUXBNME 1,439]

Apologize if this has been posted already, and I'm not 100% sure of the facts this youtuber is putting out, but if true, it's pretty impressive. 
 

 

[jonmx 2,202]

5 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Wut?  The feds have been quite clear that border control and deporting illegal aliens is a federal issue.  Have you been drinking?   

This is a difficult period for people with TDS.  They will be better in about 12 years.  

[Dizkneelande 1,018]

8 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Wut?  The feds have been quite clear that border control and deporting illegal aliens is a federal issue.  Have you been drinking?   

It’s almost like Arizona v. United States didn’t establish that states may not implement their own immigration laws. The left doesn’t know anything about anything. 

[Sean Mooney 1,815]

16 hours ago, WhiteWonder said:

Count me as someone who doesn’t think we should be allowing people in the country illegally just because they provide cheap labor (are being taken advantage of) and someone willing to pay a bit more as a result. 
 

that’s just me because I’m an American.  

I've got a hunch that you are in the minority on this.

Also, it isn't even about paying more- it's about the willingness of someone to do the work for the amount of money paid. Someone could be given 15 dollars an hour to help push cows into a milker and they'd still want 20. 

[TimHauck 2,452]

33 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I've got a hunch that you are in the minority on this.

Also, it isn't even about paying more- it's about the willingness of someone to do the work for the amount of money paid. Someone could be given 15 dollars an hour to help push cows into a milker and they'd still want 20. 

I think people will say they would do that, and then probably not actually do it in practice.  I work in the food industry and it kinda reminds me of consumer research around organic foods.  Lots of people say they want to eat more organic food, but a lot of them aren’t willing (or able) to pay a higher price for them.

[Sean Mooney 1,815]

6 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

I think people will say they would do that, and then probably not actually do it in practice.  I work in the food industry and it kinda reminds me of consumer research around organic foods.  Lots of people say they want to eat more organic food, but a lot of them aren’t willing (or able) to pay a higher price for them.

Yes...again it goes back to what I always say about perception and reality in all of this.

Also, I think too many people don't understand how ingrained illegal immigration is in the agriculture industry. And the price points of things are built around it. Take immigration out of farming and replace them with minimum wage American workers and you are going to have much more overhead cost across the board. Additionally- it might also encourage farms to move away from manual labor if it seems more worth their while to just take the hit and move to automation processes as much as possible. 

This goes back to what I said in- I don't think people understand the entire scope of what they are arguing for. 

[RLLD 3,928]

I am not sure I believe that everything is happening because of the election outcome, some probably is, but I find it a bit of a leap that everyone suddenly wants peace just because Trump will take office next year.

[WhiteWonder 2,483]

Illegal immigration has always existed and it will always exist. You’ll never be able to stop it 100%. I think the point here is to curb and eliminate the mass influx. 
there are more issues and benefits than the ones we’ve been discussing around low level jobs. 
something tells me the agriculture industry will still find a way to get their cheap labor. 
 

It’s hard to argue that mass illegal immigrants entering the country is a good thing. It seems like many of you are okay with securing the borders but seem to be taking a stance of “oh well, my administration up and they are here now so we should support them”.   

[Fnord 1,664]

54 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

Illegal immigration has always existed and it will always exist. You’ll never be able to stop it 100%. I think the point here is to curb and eliminate the mass influx. 
there are more issues and benefits than the ones we’ve been discussing around low level jobs. 
something tells me the agriculture industry will still find a way to get their cheap labor. 
 

It’s hard to argue that mass illegal immigrants entering the country is a good thing. It seems like many of you are okay with securing the borders but seem to be taking a stance of “oh well, my administration up and they are here now so we should support them”.   

They will. By lobbying TRUMP (that's for you, @jerryskids) to tell him that he needs to dial back the deportations. Let's face it, nothing speaks to him like money. It's the center of his universe. My guess is that he will make a big show of deporting a few hundred thousand people and call it good before things get really out of hand.

[Fnord 1,664]

13 hours ago, jerryskids said:

IMO if you want to be considered serious, stop with the "turnip" stuff.  That's Rusty-level, you are better than that.

Thanks, I guess. Would you care to address the rest of my post? Or would anyone else?

[The Real timschochet 5,232]

1 hour ago, WhiteWonder said:

 

It’s hard to argue that mass illegal immigrants entering the country is a good thing. 

Agreed on the way they entered but disagree strongly on their presence. It’s not hard at all to argue that their presence here is a good thing; I’ve made that argument many times and backed it up with studies and statistics. 

But putting that aside, let me make a simpler argument which is this: any mass attempt to remove these people in large numbers will, at this point, be far more of a detriment to our society than a benefit. In fact it’s hard to find any benefit at all. 

[The Real timschochet 5,232]

So many of you keep correctly pointing out that immigration is not a states issue. However if the federal government insists that state or local governments cooperate in helping them round up and deport people, those entities have the right to refuse that cooperation. (And I hope they refuse. We will in California for sure.) 

So when Tom Homan says to states “get the hell out of the way” sorry Tom, we’re in your way. Now what? 

[RLLD 3,928]

6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Agreed on the way they entered but disagree strongly on their presence. It’s not hard at all to argue that their presence here is a good thing; I’ve made that argument many times and backed it up with studies and statistics. 

But putting that aside, let me make a simpler argument which is this: any mass attempt to remove these people in large numbers will, at this point, be far more of a detriment to our society than a benefit. In fact it’s hard to find any benefit at all. 

I tend to agree on this point. I think you and I share some similar concerns about "mass" deportations.  I worry about the cost of course, and I also wonder how the federal government will overcome actions of localities who will harbor those who are here illegally.  They need to really think that through, and anticipate legal abuses galore from leftists in some of these areas.

This wont be easy.

Further, the focus should be on criminals....at least initially, but expanding it out to more and more is a good thing.   The Biden team fomented this situation, now we have to pay for their moronic policies.......in addition to the economic damage they already have done, this should also be considered part of that financial mismanagement.

[Strike 4,815]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

So many of you keep correctly pointing out that immigration is not a states issue. However if the federal government insists that state or local governments cooperate in helping them round up and deport people, those entities have the right to refuse that cooperation. (And I hope they refuse. We will in California for sure.) 

So when Tom Homan says to states “get the hell out of the way” sorry Tom, we’re in your way. Now what? 

Then they do.it without the help of those local resources as they have been doing for decades in sanctuary cities.   Did you really not understand that?

[Hardcore troubadour 14,164]

7 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

So many of you keep correctly pointing out that immigration is not a states issue. However if the federal government insists that state or local governments cooperate in helping them round up and deport people, those entities have the right to refuse that cooperation. (And I hope they refuse. We will in California for sure.) 

So when Tom Homan says to states “get the hell out of the way” sorry Tom, we’re in your way. Now what? 

Visit workplaces. Make sure the workers are legal. Uh oh 

[The Real timschochet 5,232]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

I tend to agree on this point. I think you and I share some similar concerns about "mass" deportations.  I worry about the cost of course, and I also wonder how the federal government will overcome actions of localities who will harbor those who are here illegally.  They need to really think that through, and anticipate legal abuses galore from leftists in some of these areas.

This wont be easy.

Further, the focus should be on criminals....at least initially, but expanding it out to more and more is a good thing.   The Biden team fomented this situation, now we have to pay for their moronic policies.......in addition to the economic damage they already have done, this should also be considered part of that financial mismanagement.

And I have no objection to deporting the violent criminals (after serving their sentences). 

[RLLD 3,928]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

And I have no objection to deporting the violent criminals (after serving their sentences). 

I am on the fence when it comes to housing and feeding these animals.  Yes, while in our jail they cannot harm people, even their own, while incarcerated.....but paying for it is a tough pill to swallow.  But releasing them back into their home country likely results in them at least trying to come back again.....

[The Real timschochet 5,232]

3 minutes ago, Strike said:

Then they do.it without the help of those local resources as they have been doing for decades in sanctuary cities.   Did you really not understand that?

I understand that they’re able to do it as they’ve been doing it for decades on an individual basis. But mass deportations are a whole different animal. Do you really not understand that? 

[The Real timschochet 5,232]

Just now, RLLD said:

I am on the fence when it comes to housing and feeding these animals.  Yes, while in our jail they cannot harm people, even their own, while incarcerated.....but paying for it is a tough pill to swallow.  But releasing them back into their home country likely results in them at least trying to come back again.....

I get your point. But I also don’t think we just release a violent felon in some other country. 

[RLLD 3,928]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

I get your point. But I also don’t think we just release a violent felon in some other country. 

 

Yeah, I guess I see the moral problem with dong that.   What if he can negotiate a "transfer" from our jail to their jail?

[The Real timschochet 5,232]

7 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Visit workplaces. Make sure the workers are legal. Uh oh 

You want the federal government sending in teams to visit workplaces and demand proof of citizenship? Randomly? Do you have any clue how much manpower and money that will take? 

I think this whole thing is a fantasy. I just can’t imagine how it’s going to work on a large scale. 

[The Real timschochet 5,232]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

 

Yeah, I guess I see the moral problem with dong that.   What if he can negotiate a "transfer" from our jail to their jail?

Sure. “Hey Guatamala we have 2,867 violent felons here who came originally from your country. They’re mostly murderers and rapists, a few armed robbers in there. We want to transfer them to your prisons. Is that cool?” 
 

What do you think the response will be? 

[RLLD 3,928]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

Sure. “Hey Guatamala we have 2,867 violent felons here who came originally from your country. They’re mostly murderers and rapists, a few armed robbers in there. We want to transfer them to your prisons. Is that cool?” 
 

What do you think the response will be? 

  I can guess what they might say......

[Hardcore troubadour 14,164]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

You want the federal government sending in teams to visit workplaces and demand proof of citizenship? Randomly? Do you have any clue how much manpower and money that will take? 

I think this whole thing is a fantasy. I just can’t imagine how it’s going to work on a large scale. 

Hit a few.  Word gets out. We also have 87k new IRS agents. They can go over the books. Not that hard. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,164]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

Sure. “Hey Guatamala we have 2,867 violent felons here who came originally from your country. They’re mostly murderers and rapists, a few armed robbers in there. We want to transfer them to your prisons. Is that cool?” 
 

What do you think the response will be? 

Hey Guatemala, want that foreign aid we send you, and allow the remittances to continue? Take your garbage back. Now. 

[The Real timschochet 5,232]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Hey Guatemala, want that foreign aid we send you, and allow the remittances to continue? Take your garbage back. Now. 

But see that foreign aid is tied to them buying US products. Guatamala knows that; they’re not stupid. So they won’t buy into that bluff (and a bluff is all it would be because we hurt our own industries if we do this.) 

I think @Fnord probably has it right. There’s going to be some stuff done for show. People like you will be impressed. In the end nothing of substance is going to change. 

[Death 143]

12 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Wut?  The feds have been quite clear that border control and deporting illegal aliens is a federal issue.  Have you been drinking?   

So it's a state issue when it comes to reproductive rights but a federal issue when it comes to illegal immigration.

Never mind that state folks like Gov. Newsom are making moves to protect their state stances on abortion, immigration and climate change.

Oh, and never mind that states such as Texas have deployed their own law-enforcement resources to address illegal immigration.

As I said, MAGA supports state decisions as long as those states are following the MAGA agenda. It conveniently becomes a federal issue when it involves states that aren't following the MAGA agenda.

[Cdub100 3,689]

22 minutes ago, Death said:

So it's a state issue when it comes to reproductive rights but a federal issue when it comes to illegal immigration.

Never mind that state folks like Gov. Newsom are making moves to protect their state stances on abortion, immigration and climate change.

Oh, and never mind that states such as Texas have deployed their own law-enforcement resources to address illegal immigration.

As I said, MAGA supports state decisions as long as those states are following the MAGA agenda. It conveniently becomes a federal issue when it involves states that aren't following the MAGA agenda.

How do we reach uneducated and willfully ignorant people like this poster?

[Hardcore troubadour 14,164]

31 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

But see that foreign aid is tied to them buying US products. Guatamala knows that; they’re not stupid. So they won’t buy into that bluff (and a bluff is all it would be because we hurt our own industries if we do this.) 

I think @Fnord probably has it right. There’s going to be some stuff done for show. People like you will be impressed. In the end nothing of substance is going to change. 

Please.  How much could they possibly be buying? And who will they buy it from instead? Big Business man Tim doesn’t understand leverage.  

[BrahmaBulls 627]

30 minutes ago, Death said:

So it's a state issue when it comes to reproductive rights but a federal issue when it comes to illegal immigration.

Never mind that state folks like Gov. Newsom are making moves to protect their state stances on abortion, immigration and climate change.

Oh, and never mind that states such as Texas have deployed their own law-enforcement resources to address illegal immigration.

As I said, MAGA supports state decisions as long as those states are following the MAGA agenda. It conveniently becomes a federal issue when it involves states that aren't following the MAGA agenda.

Everyone has the right to reproduce

[Fnord 1,664]

5 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

How do we reach uneducated and willfully ignorant people like this poster?

Well in the past they've sat themselves down in front of Fox news in primetime. See how well it worked!

[WhiteWonder 2,483]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

Agreed on the way they entered but disagree strongly on their presence. It’s not hard at all to argue that their presence here is a good thing; I’ve made that argument many times and backed it up with studies and statistics. 

But putting that aside, let me make a simpler argument which is this: any mass attempt to remove these people in large numbers will, at this point, be far more of a detriment to our society than a benefit. In fact it’s hard to find any benefit at all. 

If you agree on the way they entered then you agree that shouldn't be here. Plain and simple.  To put it in kids terms for you, If you snuck into a movie theater, would you feel like the employees of that theater should not kick you out because you're already here, there was an open seat (job), and you're not making any noise or causing a disturbance (violence)? Or should you be forced to leave?

Look, perhaps the key word here is MASS. If deportations are done in MASS, the potential economic impact will be felt much more so than if we begin a slower, more calculated deportation process. I will agree with that. The Biden Admin caused this problem and we need to start handling it hopefully in a way that is least disrupting to our citizens. 

The rest of your statement, that there is no benefit at all to removing illegal immigrants from the country just gets a huge eye roll from me.  Unless you meant no benefit to quick mass deportation. 

I'm sorry but it's very hard to argue that it's a positive thing for people to sneak into another country and remain there illegally. 

[Cdub100 3,689]

1 minute ago, Fnord said:

Well in the past they've sat themselves down in front of Fox news in primetime. See how well it worked!

Not sure why you're talking about the dying legacy media as if it means anything to me.

[Death 143]

9 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

How do we reach uneducated and willfully ignorant people like this poster?

Says the guy who thinks the Holocaust didn't happen. 

This is the single most ignorant thing I've ever seen here. 

[Death 143]

5 minutes ago, BrahmaBulls said:

Everyone has the right to reproduce

Tell that to the states that have passed laws restricting access to IVF.

[Cdub100 3,689]

1 minute ago, Death said:

Says the guy who thinks the Holocaust didn't happen. 

This is the single most ignorant thing I've ever seen here. 

This is exactly what I mean. These people have poisoned minds. They live in a world of lies and I'm not sure we can bring them back.

[nobody 2,468]

13 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

How do we reach uneducated and willfully ignorant people like this poster?

You wait for him to get divorced and have him marry a maga.  He gets his opinion from his wife.