SNF Discussion: 49ers at Bills - Week 13

[Mike FF Today 709]

Inactives -

49ers: QB Brandon Allen, T Trent Williams, DE Nick Bosa, CB Deommodore Lenoir, G Aaron Banks, DT Jordan Eliiott, LB Demetrius Flannigan-Fowles

Bills: QB Mike White, WR Keon Coleman, TE Dalton Kincaid, OL Will Clapp, DE Javon Solomon, LB Edefuan Ulofoshio, CB Kaiir Elam

Line: BUF -6.5
Total: 44.5

[RareN64Dream 21]

I was debating benching Deebo Samuel in a free league. But, I left him in the starting line up.

[nobody 2,461]

Buffalo doesn't look overly interested in playing in this game.  Maybe they're too complacent after beating KC a couple weeks ago.

 

[Gepetto 1,192]

Christian McCaffrey goes down on his own after pulling up lame during a run.

[LVSaint429 16]

McCaffrey’s season may have just ended 

[Mike FF Today 709]

McCaffrey headed into the blue tent... and now headed to the locker room.  He had a bit of a limp as he was walking through the tunnel.

[Mike FF Today 709]

65-yard TD for James Cook. 

[Gepetto 1,192]

They said Chistian McCaffery initial injury report is his knee. 

Jordan Mason looks good.

[Mike FF Today 709]

McCaffrey out for the remainder of the game.

[Mike FF Today 709]

So, Josh Allen gets a passing AND receiving TD on that play with Cooper.

[plasma george 62]

14 hours ago, Mike FF Today said:

So, Josh Allen gets a passing AND receiving TD on that play with Cooper.

League mates are freaking out.  Does seem odd.  Is that the official NFL rule ?  Thought it would be Allen rushing TD, Josh received a backwards lateral, not a forward pass, and not a batted back pass that he ran for a TD.

He would get the receiving yards for the distance his forward pass traveled, but not credit for a passing TD.

[Nomad99 646]

It's ridiculous that people are screaming MVP!MVP! because of that play. Anyone could have run that in....the play happened because Cooper had the smarts to lateral the ball back to Allen. Cooper deserves the credit. 

[plasma george 62]

43 minutes ago, Nomad99 said:

It's ridiculous that people are screaming MVP!MVP! because of that play. Anyone could have run that in....the play happened because Cooper had the smarts to lateral the ball back to Allen. Cooper deserves the credit. 

Also dumb they didn't blow the play dead, he was wrapped up and being pushed backwards.

[Nomad99 646]

5 minutes ago, plasma george said:

Also dumb they didn't blow the play dead, he was wrapped up and being pushed backwards.

He beat the whistle.....how many times do you see a vertical scrum during a running play....seems to last for 4-5 seconds before they blow the play dead. Coop lateraled that ball way quicker. 

[plasma george 62]

I thought he was wrapped up by two defenders, and his forward progress stopped, the play was over.....I think he was pushed back at least one yard, maybe two. 

[Nomad99 646]

Less than 3 seconds from catch to pitch.

[Drogon 14]

Apparently, Jordan Mason also hurt last night and is going on IR (high ankle sprain).

[easilyscan 716]

14 minutes ago, Drogon said:

Apparently, Jordan Mason also hurt last night and is going on IR (high ankle sprain).

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/40998/

[rotisserieking 55]

17 hours ago, Nomad99 said:

It's ridiculous that people are screaming MVP!MVP! because of that play. Anyone could have run that in....the play happened because Cooper had the smarts to lateral the ball back to Allen. Cooper deserves the credit. 

And can people STOP screaming about Allen having a receiving touchdown already? Getting annoying - it was NOT a reception, even nfl.com agrees. It was a lateral, no different than a QB turning around and pitching it to an RB. It was a rushing touchdown.

[plasma george 62]

58 minutes ago, rotisserieking said:

And can people STOP screaming about Allen having a receiving touchdown already? Getting annoying - it was NOT a reception, even nfl.com agrees. It was a lateral, no different than a QB turning around and pitching it to an RB. It was a rushing touchdown.

Where do you see NFL.com agrees ?  If the NFL agrees then the stat line should be corrected on Tuesday

[listen2me 23 1,757]

18 hours ago, Nomad99 said:

It's ridiculous that people are screaming MVP!MVP! because of that play. Anyone could have run that in....the play happened because Cooper had the smarts to lateral the ball back to Allen. Cooper deserves the credit. 

Um.  Lol yea and many backs can run a ball in from the 1.  But if a guy does it 15 times in a season he gets the credit.  Josh Allen laid out to get it over the line.  Had awareness to run behind Cooper and ask for the ball.  Great play by both.  

He is the MVP anyway.  Take thr play away.  Hes still thr MVP.  

[listen2me 23 1,757]

21 hours ago, plasma george said:

League mates are freaking out.  Does seem odd.  Is that the official NFL rule ?  Thought it would be Allen rushing TD, Josh received a backwards lateral, not a forward pass, and not a batted back pass that he ran for a TD.

He would get the receiving yards for the distance his forward pass traveled, but not credit for a passing TD.

Nah.  What if he throws it to a guy the guy tips it up and Allen catches it?  Its a pass.  You cant have a run play and a pass play on same play.  How is it a running TD when he gets a lateral beyond the line?   Weird play but I dont know how else you can calculate other than how it was done.  

[listen2me 23 1,757]

1 hour ago, rotisserieking said:

And can people STOP screaming about Allen having a receiving touchdown already? Getting annoying - it was NOT a reception, even nfl.com agrees. It was a lateral, no different than a QB turning around and pitching it to an RB. It was a rushing touchdown.

Um its not different?  How about the one important aspect that one is behind the line of scrimmage?  

If its a hook and ladder to a different WR do they call that a "running" td?

[plasma george 62]

Just now, listen2me 23 said:

Nah.  What if he throws it to a guy the guy tips it up and Allen catches it?  Its a pass.  You cant have a run play and a pass play on same play.  How is it a running TD when he gets a lateral beyond the line?   Weird play but I dont know how else you can calculate other than how it was done.  

Yes, a batted pass is different, that wasn't a reception by another player, that's happened before, but this reception and lateral, not a forward pass.

Cooper made the reception, but Allen gets awarded receiving TD ?...that's what makes no sense. 

[listen2me 23 1,757]

4 minutes ago, plasma george said:

Yes, a batted pass is different, that wasn't a reception by another player, that's happened before, but this reception and lateral, not a forward pass.

Cooper made the reception, but Allen gets awarded receiving TD ?...that's what makes no sense. 

How is a hook and ladder called when a WR pitches it to another WR?  How can a running play start beyond thr line of scrimmage?  So on 1 play from scrimmage you are saying it can be a pass and a run play?  How?  You can do both in 1 play?  

[listen2me 23 1,757]

So does it go down as 2 plays from scrimmage on the stat sheet?  How?  

[listen2me 23 1,757]

You guys have no logic.  Its a weird play.  But you guys have no logic.  

So on a single play from scrimmage its supposed to be recorded as an Allen pass attempt and an Allen run?  Explain how that can happen on 1 play from scrimmage.  

[rotisserieking 55]

6 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

If its a hook and ladder to a different WR do they call that a "running" td?

I believe that is correct. The initial WR gets the "reception" and the yards to that spot, then the second player gets the yardage from there and the TD.

But what is weird as plasma george points out is how can you have receiving yards with no reception? I just looked and now nfl.com removed Allen from the receiving list but gave him an additional passing TD. So bizarre.

[listen2me 23 1,757]

6 minutes ago, rotisserieking said:

I believe that is correct. The initial WR gets the "reception" and the yards to that spot, then the second player gets the yardage from there and the TD.

But what is weird as plasma george points out is how can you have receiving yards with no reception? I just looked and now nfl.com removed Allen from the receiving list but gave him an additional passing TD. So bizarre.

It is a weird play.  And weird if the yds just vanish.  But people trying to say it should be a pass attempt and a run attempt in 1 single play from scrimmage are not being logical.  

[rotisserieking 55]

20 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

It is a weird play.  And weird if the yds just vanish.  But people trying to say it should be a pass attempt and a run attempt in 1 single play from scrimmage are not being logical.  

How would you describe it? You cannot have 2 passes on the same play because by rule you can only have 1 forward pass. So if it's not a forward pass, it must be a lateral no?

[plasma george 62]

Didn't St. Brown get a hook and ladder TD earlier this season ?  I believe the other WR got the reception and yards (from the catch), an St Brown got rushing yards and a rushing TD.

[listen2me 23 1,757]

4 minutes ago, rotisserieking said:

How would you describe it? You cannot have 2 passes on the same play because by rule you can only have 1 forward pass. So if it's not a forward pass, it must be a lateral no?

A lateral past the line of scrimmage.   Only way to call it is a reception TD.  No one freaks out about routine laterals without a QB involved.  

[listen2me 23 1,757]

1 minute ago, plasma george said:

Didn't St. Brown get a hook and ladder TD earlier this season ?  I believe the other WR got the reception and yards (from the catch), an St Brown got rushing yards and a rushing TD.

St brown has zero rushing TDs on the year.  

Google is your friend.  

[rotisserieking 55]

11 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

A lateral past the line of scrimmage.   Only way to call it is a reception TD.  No one freaks out about routine laterals without a QB involved.  

ARTICLE 2. PASSING PLAY

A pass play begins with the snap and ends when a forward pass thrown from behind the line of scrimmage is caught by a player of either team or is incomplete. At the instant that a pass is caught, a Running Play begins.

ARTICLE 3. RUNNING PLAY

A running play begins in the following situations:

(f) If there is a running play followed by a fumble or a backward pass, a new Running Play begins when a player of either team establishes possession of the ball.

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-rulebook/#article-2-passing-play

 

[listen2me 23 1,757]

1 minute ago, rotisserieking said:

ARTICLE 2. PASSING PLAY

A pass play begins with the snap and ends when a forward pass thrown from behind the line of scrimmage is caught by a player of either team or is incomplete. At the instant that a pass is caught, a Running Play begins.

ARTICLE 3. RUNNING PLAY

A running play begins in the following situations:

(f) If there is a running play followed by a fumble or a backward pass, a new Running Play begins when a player of either team establishes possession of the ball.

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-rulebook/#article-2-passing-play

 

Doesnt read correctly.  So there is a running play on every completed pass?  Lol

[rotisserieking 55]

2 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Doesnt read correctly.  So there is a running play on every completed pass?  Lol

I'm just presenting the NFL Rules, which present a logical description of why this is not a "reception". It appears they have no defined stat for whatever happened Sunday night. I guess we wait and see when the stat corrections come out tomorrow.

[listen2me 23 1,757]

13 minutes ago, rotisserieking said:

I'm just presenting the NFL Rules, which present a logical description of why this is not a "reception". It appears they have no defined stat for whatever happened Sunday night. I guess we wait and see when the stat corrections come out tomorrow.

Except he was like 4th player to do it.   Not sure exactly how the other 3 looked.  

I just dont understand how you can call it a run TD. He passed the ball.  Ot was completed.  You can not then get a running attempt 6 yards downfield.  

How does a regular hook and lateral between 2 WRs get recorded?  Weve seen that much more.  

[listen2me 23 1,757]

We see laterals enough and they are always recorded the same.  It makes no difference if the QB goes and gets the pitch as opposed to a wr te or rb.  

In football, a "hook and lateral" play is recorded as a single passing play, with the initial receiver credited for the catch and receiving yards from the line of scrimmage to the point of the lateral, and the subsequent receiver gaining yards from the point of the lateral to where the play ends, but not receiving credit for a catch; essentially, the play is treated as one continuous pass with a backward lateral involved

[plasma george 62]

42 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

We see laterals enough and they are always recorded the same.  It makes no difference if the QB goes and gets the pitch as opposed to a wr te or rb.  

In football, a "hook and lateral" play is recorded as a single passing play, with the initial receiver credited for the catch and receiving yards from the line of scrimmage to the point of the lateral, and the subsequent receiver gaining yards from the point of the lateral to where the play ends, but not receiving credit for a catch; essentially, the play is treated as one continuous pass with a backward lateral involved

It was Goff to St. Brown to Gibbs, against Cardinals this year.  (google is your friend). 

Goff got the passing TD and Gibbs got the receiving TD, so I guess Allen's score is correct, getting both the passing TD and receiving TD.

[rotisserieking 55]

2 hours ago, plasma george said:

Where do you see NFL.com agrees ?  If the NFL agrees then the stat line should be corrected on Tuesday

It's so confusing. This morning the stat line showed Allen with 0 targets, 0 catches, 7 yards receiving and a TD.

Now they've removed him from the receiving stats but show him with 2 passing TDs but only 1 WR has a TD. So as of now no one has credit for the 2nd TD reception

Player	REC	YDS	TD	TGTS
Dawson Knox	2	56	0	2
Khalil Shakir	4	30	0	7
Quintin Morris	1	14	0	1
James Cook	1	13	0	1
Amari Cooper	3	12	0	3
Ty Johnson	1	9	0	1
Mack Hollins	1	7	1	1
Ray Davis	1	4	0	1
Zach Davidson	0	0	0	1