Joseph - The Ultimate Cuck

[MDC 6,859]

Just now, Sean Mooney said:

 

Don't tell Jerry he can't paint with a wide brush.....

Jerry’s a smart guy.

[Engorgeous George 1,950]

27 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Of course she was. People only lived to, like, 30 then. And those were the lucky ones 

My Jesus knowledge is limited, but didn't Mary and maybe Mary Magdeline tend his body when it came down from the cross?  If so that would have made his mother remarkably old for those times.  She would then have been 48 or 49.

[The Phantom's Phantom 248]

10 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

No, you do them.  You won't though, because there is nothing like it.

Also, while lots of Christians don't support gay weddings, they are allowed to happen in our culture, people can be openly gay, and we certainly don't stone them.

The largest muslim country in the world by population is Indonesia.  There are no honor killings and being gay is legal.

You're really showing your ignorance.

also your side is trying to do away with gay weddings and public displays of gayness so cut your sh1t.

[jerryskids 6,318]

8 minutes ago, MDC said:

Muslims in our culture don’t stone gays either. It’s almost like the culture is the big factor not the religion. 

 

7 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

 

Don't tell Jerry he can't paint with a wide brush.....

Wow, thanks guys, if only I had thought of this...

 

... wait, I did, in my post that started this discussion$#@!

I've been talking about culture this entire time.  If some individual wants to practice Islam, I don't care.

But when it influences culture, it is a cancer.

Until we stop apologizing for it and recognize it for what it is, it will just keep getting worse.  

[jerryskids 6,318]

4 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

The largest muslim country in the world by population is Indonesia.  There are no honor killings and being gay is legal.

You're really showing your ignorance.

also your side is trying to do away with gay weddings and public displays of gayness so cut your sh1t.

Who is trying to do away with gay weddings?

Define "public displays".  Are we talking about a guy in a polo and khakis with a "Gay Pride" sign, or assless chaps and paper mache dongs?

[Hardcore troubadour 14,424]

28 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

O Rly?  I thought we were a third world nation that was a disaster and needed Father Trump to save us.

No mostly good. Take New Jersey as an example. Every city is a shitthole, but most of the state is stable suburban areas. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,424]

8 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

The largest muslim country in the world by population is Indonesia.  There are no honor killings and being gay is legal.

You're really showing your ignorance.

also your side is trying to do away with gay weddings and public displays of gayness so cut your sh1t.

Indonesia you say? Why didn’t Trump put it on his list of Muslim banned countries then? 

[The Phantom's Phantom 248]

10 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Who is trying to do away with gay weddings?

Define "public displays".  Are we talking about a guy in a polo and khakis with a "Gay Pride" sign, or assless chaps and paper mache dongs?

We've seen laws in Tennessee and Kentucky and also Justices Alito and Thomas say that they would like to revisit the matter during the Dobbs decision.

Yes we saw gay parades under attack and drag show bans in place as well.

[Sean Mooney 1,816]

"Guys- just read my first post and ignore everything else I said..."

[The Phantom's Phantom 248]

7 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

"Guys- just read my first post and ignore everything else I said..."

Usually Jerry just runs away after getting called out on his BS but today was a full BACKPEDAL

[Sean Mooney 1,816]

1 minute ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

Usually Jerry just runs away after getting called out on his BS but today was a full BACKPEDAL

Full on- "Feet don't fail me now" moment 

[Fnord 1,803]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

No, you do them.  You won't though, because there is nothing like it.

Also, while lots of Christians don't support gay weddings, they are allowed to happen in our culture, people can be openly gay, and we certainly don't stone them.

Well you can probably thank progressives for that, as society generally has dragged religious adherents into begrudging acceptance. 

[jerryskids 6,318]

51 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

Usually Jerry just runs away after getting called out on his BS but today was a full BACKPEDAL

 

48 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Full on- "Feet don't fail me now" moment 

You guys are pathetic.   

Another post of mine before you geniuses chimed in:

 

Hmm, again with the culture.  I'm seeing a pattern.

Mooney chimed in on a post in between where I didn't explicitly say culture, even though that's been the entire context of my talk.  I notice Mooney hasn't addressed those, instead he jumped to his idiotic false equivalency position.  And when asked for his links of comparable evil, crickets.  Just asking me "now do...".  Show the receipts, Sean.

Gutter is just a troll who jumped in at the end.  Indonesia put in a law in 2022 to protect women, that's progress I'll admit.  Before then, eh...

So we agree, individual Muslims can be OK, Islamic culture sucks?  

[Fnord 1,803]

1 minute ago, jerryskids said:

 

You guys are pathetic.   

Another post of mine before you geniuses chimed in:

 

Hmm, again with the culture.  I'm seeing a pattern.

Mooney chimed in on a post in between where I didn't explicitly say culture, even though that's been the entire context of my talk.  I notice Mooney hasn't addressed those, instead he jumped to his idiotic false equivalency position.  And when asked for his links of comparable evil, crickets.  Just asking me "now do...".  Show the receipts, Sean.

Gutter is just a troll who jumped in at the end.  Indonesia put in a law in 2022 to protect women, that's progress I'll admit.  Before then, eh...

So we agree, individual Muslims can be OK, Islamic culture sucks?  

Let's go with "radical religious culture sucks."

[The Phantom's Phantom 248]

3 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

 

You guys are pathetic.   

Another post of mine before you geniuses chimed in:

 

Hmm, again with the culture.  I'm seeing a pattern.

Mooney chimed in on a post in between where I didn't explicitly say culture, even though that's been the entire context of my talk.  I notice Mooney hasn't addressed those, instead he jumped to his idiotic false equivalency position.  And when asked for his links of comparable evil, crickets.  Just asking me "now do...".  Show the receipts, Sean.

Gutter is just a troll who jumped in at the end.  Indonesia put in a law in 2022 to protect women, that's progress I'll admit.  Before then, eh...

So we agree, individual Muslims can be OK, Islamic culture sucks?  

No I jumped in when you said Islam isn't valuable to society and humankind in general but Christianity is.  That's one of the most ignorant things I've ever heard and you needed to be called out on it.  I'm glad you've backpedaled on that and learned at least one new thing today.  Between today and Sunday when you learned that HFCS isn't any worse for you table sugar and the largest muslim country in the world doesn't stone gays.  Shaping up to be a banner week for you.  Can't wait to see what else I can teach you.

[The Phantom's Phantom 248]

10 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Let's go with "radical religious culture sucks."

This pretty much sums it up.

[Sean Mooney 1,816]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

 

You guys are pathetic.   

Another post of mine before you geniuses chimed in:

 

 

Mooney chimed in on a post in between where I didn't explicitly say culture, even though that's been the entire context of my talk.  I notice Mooney hasn't addressed those, instead he jumped to his idiotic false equivalency position.  And when asked for his links of comparable evil, crickets.  Just asking me "now do...".  Show the receipts, Sean.

 

I jumped in on you decrying the entire of the Islam faith and saying it wasn't valuable to humankind. Maybe you didn't get that far yet in your thread reboot?

You seem to do this a lot. You make one statement, and then you argue a bunch of things around it and when you get called on it you say "You didn't read my first post...focus on that and not the inane posts I gave later." It's also clear you obfuscate the point about this stuff.

As to the rape and sexaul assualt thing: From Deuteronomy chapter 22, verses 13-29:

Quote

[13] "If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and then spurns her,
[14] and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings an evil name upon her, saying, `I took this woman, and when I came near her, I did not find in her the tokens of virginity,'
[15] then the father of the young woman and her mother shall take and bring out the tokens of her virginity to the elders of the city in the gate;
[16] and the father of the young woman shall say to the elders, `I gave my daughter to this man to wife, and he spurns her;
[17] and lo, he has made shameful charges against her, saying, "I did not find in your daughter the tokens of virginity." And yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity.' And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city.
[18] Then the elders of that city shall take the man and whip him;
[19] and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver, and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought an evil name upon a virgin of Israel; and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days.
[20] But if the thing is true, that the tokens of virginity were not found in the young woman,
[21] then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has wrought folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father's house; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you.
[22] "If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall purge the evil from Israel.
[23] "If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her,
[24] then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you.
[25] "But if in the open country a man meets a young woman who is betrothed, and the man seizes her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die.
[26] But to the young woman you shall do nothing; in the young woman there is no offense punishable by death, for this case is like that of a man attacking and murdering his neighbor;
[27] because he came upon her in the open country, and though the betrothed young woman cried for help there was no one to rescue her.
[28] "If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found,
[29] then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her; he may not put her away all his days.

Clearly some of this is not good. But the important passage is in bold. If a woman is raped outside the city she is protected from punishment because it was obvious she didn't consent and no one would have been able to save her. If it happens in the city though she should be stoned to death with her attacker if she doesn't cry out. Now theologically people would argue that the verses are telling people the consequences so they never get to letting these actions happening- but you could also see how someone would misinterpret the verses and act upon them in those times. Even today there are people who would argue a person is unclean if they are sexually assaulted. Additionally, newer schools of Christian thought would argue the story in John 8 reflects a reconsideration of these rules, but there are denominations of the Christian and Catholic faiths that don't really follow the New testament so they wouldn't recognize them.

 

As to gay marriage:

The Bible has plenty of passages that go about gay marriage and I'm sure you know them because they are debated as to what they are saying at all times. There are people who take those verses very seriously and will shun or scorn gay people because of them and will fight against gay rights because of those passages. Again- people who pervert the word of God for their own purposes. 

 

But even still- I don't think anyone is saying we should dismiss the entirety of the religion because of some backwards beliefs or thinking. That's the point. You made the claim that Islam is not useful to humankind. In that discussion you said "Here are their thoughts on this and that." I asked you to look at all religions and you refused. Again- it's because you know the answer. You just want to stay boxed into your way of thinking. 

 

[Sean Mooney 1,816]

25 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Let's go with "radical religious culture sucks."

Exactly. This is the point I made and Jerry whacked out over it. Again- if you judge any group by the most extreme position holders in that group you are wiping out large swaths of people.

[purdygood 310]

Imagine having a girlfriend who has never let you get any be like "Hey I'm pregnant, but it's totally God's baby. We need to walk through the desert and sleep in a barn. And three total strangers are gonna bring us weird ass gifts. But It's totally cool. Let's roll"

[Sean Mooney 1,816]

15 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

No I jumped in when you said Islam isn't valuable to society and humankind in general but Christianity is.  That's one of the most ignorant things I've ever heard and you needed to be called out on it.  I'm glad you've backpedaled on that and learned at least one new thing today.  Between today and Sunday when you learned that HFCS isn't any worse for you table sugar and the largest muslim country in the world doesn't stone gays.  Shaping up to be a banner week for you.  Can't wait to see what else I can teach you.

My favorite part was Jerry getting mad because I said "some jackasses" of 1.9 billion worldwide. His response was to say 39% of one area that has 2 million members of the religious persuasion is evidence it isn't "some jackasses"

[thegeneral 2,644]

8 minutes ago, purdygood said:

Imagine having a girlfriend who has never let you get any be like "Hey I'm pregnant, but it's totally God's baby. We need to walk through the desert and sleep in a barn. And three total strangers are gonna bring us weird ass gifts. But It's totally cool. Let's roll"

One can never have too much frankincense! Great stocking stuffer.

[jerryskids 6,318]

38 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

No I jumped in when you said Islam isn't valuable to society and humankind in general but Christianity is.  That's one of the most ignorant things I've ever heard and you needed to be called out on it.  I'm glad you've backpedaled on that and learned at least one new thing today.  Between today and Sunday when you learned that HFCS isn't any worse for you table sugar and the largest muslim country in the world doesn't stone gays.  Shaping up to be a banner week for you.  Can't wait to see what else I can teach you.

By Islam I meant Islamic culture, which I stated in at least two earlier posts.  I'm not saying an individual Muslim can't be of value, that's dumb.

Regarding HFCS, I had to run out for the day, but here is an NIH metastudy which shows HFCS is significantly significant for CRP, a marker for inflammation, which causes increased heart disease and stroke.  Heart disease is the #1 killer in the US, stroke is #6.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9551185/

[Hardcore troubadour 14,424]

1 hour ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

No I jumped in when you said Islam isn't valuable to society and humankind in general but Christianity is.  That's one of the most ignorant things I've ever heard and you needed to be called out on it.  I'm glad you've backpedaled on that and learned at least one new thing today.  Between today and Sunday when you learned that HFCS isn't any worse for you table sugar and the largest muslim country in the world doesn't stone gays.  Shaping up to be a banner week for you.  Can't wait to see what else I can teach you.

Lol. A simple google of “Indonesia gays” paints a little different story of how they are treated than the lavender paradise Gutterboy has painted. It’s actually outlawed in some provinces, along with many other restrictions throughout the country.  lol. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,424]

Also Same sex marriage is prohibited in Indonesia. But it’s legal to be gay! 

[purdygood 310]

37 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

One can never have too much frankincense! Great stocking stuffer.

There has to be one guy out there who's name is Franklin Incents and he makes all the Dad jokes every December.

[The Phantom's Phantom 248]

25 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

By Islam I meant Islamic culture, which I stated in at least two earlier posts.  I'm not saying an individual Muslim can't be of value, that's dumb.

Regarding HFCS, I had to run out for the day, but here is an NIH metastudy which shows HFCS is significantly significant for CRP, a marker for inflammation, which causes increased heart disease and stroke.  Heart disease is the #1 killer in the US, stroke is #6.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9551185/

That's great but there are other studies that contradict that.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2161831322011085#bib60

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27357093/

https://www.scopus.com/record/display.uri?eid=2-s2.0-20944448256&origin=inward&txGid=21ef6696fed7d3ed072a0532abda11ed

It's cute to cherry pick studies when the consensus is that there is no material difference between the two on your health.  This was something that was talked about many years ago but the science doesn't support it.

 

[The Phantom's Phantom 248]

14 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Lol. A simple google of “Indonesia gays” paints a little different story of how they are treated than the lavender paradise Gutterboy has painted. It’s actually outlawed in some provinces, along with many other restrictions throughout the country.  lol. 

Lavender paradise?  WTF

All I said was that it's legal to be gay which goes against jerry's assertion that muslim countries stone their gays to death.

[thegeneral 2,644]

Does Indonesia practice a separation of Church and State as we do?

[Hardcore troubadour 14,424]

1 minute ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

Lavender paradise?  WTF

All I said was that it's legal to be gay which goes against jerry's assertion that muslim countries stone their gays to death.

So, what’s the punishment for being gay in the areas in Indonesia where it’s illegal? 

[jerryskids 6,318]

6 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

That's great but there are other studies that contradict that.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2161831322011085#bib60

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27357093/

https://www.scopus.com/record/display.uri?eid=2-s2.0-20944448256&origin=inward&txGid=21ef6696fed7d3ed072a0532abda11ed

It's cute to cherry pick studies when the consensus is that there is no material difference between the two on your health.  This was something that was talked about many years ago but the science doesn't support it.

 

I didn't cherry pick; mine was a meta study that analyzed multiple studies.  You are picking specific studies.

[The Phantom's Phantom 248]

14 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I didn't cherry pick; mine was a meta study that analyzed multiple studies.  You are picking specific studies.

So, what do we really know about the metabolism, endocrine responses, and health effects of sucrose, HFCS, and fructose? At present, we believe that the following conclusions are warranted. First, there is no unique relationship between HFCS and obesity. Second, there is broad scientific consensus that there are no significant metabolic or endocrine response differences or differences in health-related effects between HFCS and sucrose. Third, the metabolism and health effects of both HFCS and sucrose are different from those observed in studies that compare pure fructose with pure glucose, neither of which is consumed to any appreciable degree in the human diet. Fourth, recent randomized clinical trials have suggested that there are no adverse effects on total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol or HDL cholesterol at amounts ranging up to the 90th percentile level of fructose consumption, although other investigators have shown increases in cholesterol and/or LDL cholesterol in subjects consuming either sucrose or HFCS (66, 68, 69, 70), so further research studies are needed to clarify this issue. There is, however, a reliable increase in triglycerides from consumption of elevated levels of carbohydrates (particularly simple sugars), which merits further exploration.

Taken together, these findings suggest that we must be very cautious when attributing adverse health consequences to the consumption of fructose, HFCS, or sucrose, particularly at normal population consumption levels. More randomized, controlled trials at normal levels of consumption using commonly consumed sugars are necessary to resolve these issues. In the meantime, it is important to recognize that scientific debates of this nature do not take place in a vacuum. These discussions have enormous potential to confuse and alarm the public, making the need to frame results with appropriate caution and minimize speculation imperative.

[nobody 2,500]

4 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

Now do all the other religions.

Also, lots of Christians denounce gay weddings as an affront to God. So by your logic all Christians are against gay marriage

Dude just equated stoning someone to death with refusing to bake them a cake.

[nobody 2,500]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Also Same sex marriage is prohibited in Indonesia. But it’s legal to be gay! 

Let a gay couple go to Indonesia and start making out in the street.  I bet we'll see how tolerant the good ole indonesians are.

[Sean Mooney 1,816]

20 minutes ago, nobody said:

Dude just equated stoning someone to death with refusing to bake them a cake.

You dummies always jump to one extreme to try and prove your point. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,424]

1 hour ago, nobody said:

Let a gay couple go to Indonesia and start making out in the street.  I bet we'll see how tolerant the good ole indonesians are.

Gutterboy can’t figure it out. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,424]

I bet most of you ignorant bastards think Islam were innocent victims in the Crusades. 

[jbycho 318]

On 12/16/2024 at 12:52 PM, nobody said:

So Joseph and Mary are presumably together.  But she's a virgin, so that means she's not giving Joseph any.  I presume they were married which makes the fact that she's a virgin even worse, but then god comes in and knocks her up and has Joseph raise his kid.  Kind of messed up.

Let's celebrate his cuckolding this holiday season.

You seem lonely. 

[Fnord 1,803]

18 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Lol. A simple google of “Indonesia gays” paints a little different story of how they are treated than the lavender paradise Gutterboy has painted. It’s actually outlawed in some provinces, along with many other restrictions throughout the country.  lol. 

Be honest; you didn't need to do a search because you already had this bookmarked, didn't you? 

Lavender paradise  Next year's FF team name

[jerryskids 6,318]

Hey @Sean Mooneyand @The Phantom's Phantom, here is a great read by Sam Harris on the problems of Islam.  Sam is a philosopher, neuroscientist, and podcaster.  He hates Trump more than everyone here combined, so our politics aren't exactly aligned.  But we are aligned in this.

tl;dr -- the problem is not only radical jihadists, but more so the general acceptance of their behavior by the larger Muslim community. 

Quote

December 6, 2023

This is a transcript of a recorded podcast. 

* * *

What is Islamophobia? Someone once said on the Internet, it’s a word “invented by fascists and used by cowards to manipulate morons,” and that’s not far from the truth. There is no question that the term has been designed to confuse people. Its purpose is to conflate any criticism of Islam, which is a doctrine of religious beliefs, with bigotry against Muslims as people. In fact, it equates secularism itself—the commitment to keeping religion out of our laws and public policy—with hatred. The term is now being widely used in the mainstream media, and it is making it impossible to speak honestly about the consequences of dangerous ideas.

Let’s be clear about what is real here and what is fake: Racism is real. There are white supremacists in America, for instance. And, of course, these imbeciles can be counted upon to hate immigrants from Muslim-majority countries—Arabs, Pakistanis, Somalis, etc.—and to hate them for their superficial characteristics, like the color of their skin. This is detestable. But these people hate non-Muslim immigrants too—for instance, Hindus from India—and for the same reasons. We already have words like “racism” and “xenophobia” to cover this problem.  Inventing a new term like “Islamophobia” doesn’t give us license to say that there is a new form of hatred in the world.

There is no race of Muslims. Islam is a system of ideas, subscribed to by people of every race and ethnicity. It’s just like Christianity in that regard. Christianity and Islam are both aggressively missionary faiths, and they win converts from everywhere. People criticize Christianity all the time and worry about its political and social influences—but no one confuses this for bigotry against Christians as people. There’s no such thing as “Christophobia.” If you criticize Christianity—and I’ve written an entire book excoriating Christianity—no one accuses you of being a racist against people from Brazil, or Mexico, or Ethiopia, or the Philippines. But even the New York Times will use the term “Islamophobia” as a synonym for racism against Arabs. This is pure delusion and propaganda. There are Christian Arabs. And I could become a Muslim in 5 minutes just by converting to the faith.

How does the term “antisemitism” differ as a concept? Well, we have a 2000-year-old tradition of religiously inspired hatred against Jews, courtesy of Christian theology. But for at least the last 150 years, or so, Jews have been thought of as a distinct race of people, both by those who hate them and, rather often, by Jews themselves. So antisemitism tends to be expressed as a specific form of racism. Antisemites are not focused on what Jews believe, or even on what they do on the basis of their beliefs. Modern antisemites, like Nazis, care about who your mother’s mother’s mother was. Just like racism, antisemitism has become a hatred of people, as people, not because of their beliefs or their behavior, but because of the mere circumstances of their birth.

Why is this different? Well, unlike a person’s race or skin color or country of origin, beliefs can be argued for, and criticized, and changed. And the truth is, we don’t respect people’s beliefs just because they hold them. Beliefs must earn respect. And there is a good reason for this: beliefs are claims about reality and about how human beings should live within it—so they necessarily lead to behaviors, and to values, and laws, and institutions that affect the lives of everyone, whether they share these beliefs or not. Beliefs end marriages and start wars.

Honestly criticizing the doctrine of Islam does not entail bigotry against Arabs or any other group of people. It is not an expression of hatred to notice that specific Islamic ideas—in particular, beliefs about martyrdom, and jihad, and blasphemy, and apostasy—inspire terrible acts of violence. And it’s not an expression of phobia—that is, irrational fear—to notice that violent religious fanatics don’t make good neighbors.

And while every religion has its fanatics, there is only one religion on Earth where even its mainstream members of the faith seek to impose their religious taboos on everyone else. There is only one religion that has made it unsafe for people to criticize it—or indeed, for its own members to leave it. Only Muslims routinely fear for their lives when they decide to leave their religion—and this is true, even in the West. If you doubt this, just read some books or listen to some podcasts by ex-Muslims.

Anyone who wants to draw a cartoon, or write a novel, or stage a play that makes fun of Mormonism is free to do that. In the United States, this freedom is nominally guaranteed by the First Amendment—but that is not, in fact, what guarantees it. The freedom to poke fun at Mormonism is guaranteed by the fact that Mormons don’t tend to murder their critics. They don’t start riots and burn embassies in response to satire.

When The Book of Mormon became the most celebrated musical in the United States, the LDS Church protested by placing ads for their faith in the program. That might have been a wasted effort: but it was also a charming sign of good humor. Yes, there are crazy and dangerous people in every faith—and I often hear from them. But what is true of Mormonism is true of every other religion, with a single exception. Can you imagine staging a similar play about Islam anywhere on Earth? No you cannot—unless you also imagine the creators of that play being hunted for the rest of their lives by religious maniacs. You also have to imagine Muslims by the hundreds of thousands, in dozens of countries, going absolutely berserk.

At this moment in history, there is only one religion that systematically stifles free expression with credible threats of violence. The truth is, we have already lost our First Amendment freedoms with respect to Islam. We lost them decades ago—and anyone who is tempted to cry “Islamophobia” at this point, shares the blame for this. This status quo is intolerable—and, most important, it should be intolerable to Muslims themselves. They should be mortified that their community is so uniquely combustible. So uniquely uncivil. So incapable of self-reflection and self-criticism. So dangerously childish. So desperate to make the whole world it's safe space.

Consider what is actually happening: Some percentage of the world’s Muslims—and it is not just extremists—are demanding that all non-Muslims conform to Islamic law. And while they might not immediately resort to violence in their protests, they threaten it. Carrying a sign through the streets of London that reads “Behead Those Who Insult the Prophet” might still count as an example of peaceful protest, but it is also an assurance that infidel blood would be shed if the thug holding the sign only had more power. Wherever Muslims do have real power, this grotesque promise is always fulfilled. To make a film, or stage a play, or write a novel critical of Islam in any Muslim-majority country, is as sure a method of suicide as the laws of physics allow. There is only one religion on Earth that has normalized this level of fanaticism. And it isn’t an expression of bigotry to notice that this is totally antithetical to everything that civilized people value in the 21st century.

The October 7th attacks in Israel changed the way many of us think about the vulnerability of open societies. They changed the way we think about immigration and failures of assimilation. And they revealed a level of moral confusion in our universities and other institutions that is as astonishing as it is masochistic. We have people who are ostensibly committed to women’s rights, and gay rights, and trans rights, mindlessly supporting people who would hurl them from rooftops or beat them to death with their own hands. It is not a sign of bigotry to notice this hypocrisy and moral confusion for what it is.

It really is possible to be critical of Israel, and to be committed to the political rights of the Palestinian people, without denying the reality of Islamic religious fanaticism—or the threat that it poses not just to Israel, but to open societies everywhere.

There have been nearly 50,000 acts of Islamic terrorism in the last 40 years—and the French group that maintains a database of these attacks considers that to be an undercount. Ninety percent of them have occurred in Muslim countries. Most have nothing to do with Israel or Jews. There have been 82 attacks in France and over 2000 in Pakistan during this period. Do you want France to be more like Pakistan? You just need more jihadists. You just need more people susceptible to becoming jihadists. You just need a wider Muslim community that won’t condemn jihadism, but pretends that the theology that inspires it will be true and perfect until the end of the world. You just need millions of people who will protest Israel for defending itself, or call for the deaths of cartoonists for depicting the prophet Muhammad, and yet not make a peep about the jihadist atrocities that occur daily, all over the world, in the name of their religion.

When hundreds of thousands of people show up in London to condemn Hamas, or the Islamic State, or any specific instance of jihadist savagery, without both-sides-ing anything, then we will know that something has changed. When Muslims by the millions pour into the streets in protest, not over cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad, but over the murder of cartoonists by their own religious fanatics, we will know that we’ve made a modicum of progress.

The Muslim world needs to win a war of ideas with itself, and perhaps several civil wars. It has to de-radicalize itself. It has to transform the doctrine of jihad into something far more benign than it is, and it has to stop supporting its religious fanatics when they come into conflict with non-Muslims. This is what’s so toxic: Muslims supporting other Muslims no matter how sociopathic and insane their behavior.

If the Muslim community and the political Left can’t stand against jihadism, it is only a matter of time before their moral blindness leads to rightwing authoritarianism in the West. If secular liberals won’t create secure borders, fascists will. And that is a world that none of us should want to live in.

https://www.samharris.org/blog/what-is-islamophobia

If you prefer, you can go to the link and listen to him.  He has a very soothing voice -- I used to use a meditation app he put out.

[The Phantom's Phantom 248]

That makes sense and I would agree with it.

Just to be clear, I'm no fan of organized religion, any of it.  They all have their problems.  Islam has an extremist problem, a terror problem, culture problem.  Catholicism has a child rape problem and general world corruption problem.  Christianity has a most of the same problems as Islam just in much lower numbers.

My only contention was to say that the religion of Islam provided no value to the world but Christianity has.  You've since walked that back so I'm done here.