J6 Pardons

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,522]

21 minutes ago, Fnord said:

And herein lies the root of the problems with him. Anything that is only theoretical, historical, normal, ethical, or acceptable does not exist. He will bend, warp, or break anything perceived to be in his way. And in tearing down the institutions with the ability and willingness to check his power and actions, he further enables his own abuse of the system. We are 2 days into this admin. My guess is it will take him about 6 months to really realize that he can do whatever, whenever he wants and will truly begin challenging the few weak guardrails remaining. 

No disrespect, but EVERY administration does this.  Biden did it too.  Or the cabal that was actually running the country under Biden, that is.

[jbycho 287]

4 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

No disrespect, but EVERY administration does this.  Biden did it too.

Liberals are whiney little creeps. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,357]

29 minutes ago, Fnord said:

And herein lies the root of the problems with him. Anything that is only theoretical, historical, normal, ethical, or acceptable does not exist. He will bend, warp, or break anything perceived to be in his way. And in tearing down the institutions with the ability and willingness to check his power and actions, he further enables his own abuse of the system. We are 2 days into this admin. My guess is it will take him about 6 months to really realize that he can do whatever, whenever he wants and will truly begin challenging the few weak guardrails remaining. 

Will he be turning misdemeanors into felonies so he can have a previous president arrested and tried?  

[jonmx 2,274]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

Simply put I don’t believe that any of the “what ifs” you raised happened. I think they’re all hogwash. But hey if there’s evidence, bring it. Otherwise this committee is going to look really foolish and I suspect that will be the case. 

Exactly.  But everything i said is true. You will never find it in your media.  We already know for a fact Liz Cheney influenced testimony and deleted tapes to cover her butt. The pipe bomb stuff will be exposed at some point.  Everything I said will be proven true at some point.   But you are too naive and believe our media is honestly reporting news.   The absolute 100 percent truth is the so-called mainstream media is purely mouthpieces for the deep state and have been for decades.  

[Engorgeous George 1,884]

50 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Great response. You also asked me to cite case law as to how using the pardon power can be an impeachable offense. I’m not a lawyer so I don’t know the case law. However I looked it up. Here is an article from 2018 explaining how using pardons can be obstruction of justice and therefore impeachable. It cites cases and the Supreme Court: 

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/obstructing-justice-pardons-impeachable-offense/

As far as me being open minded: if you disagree with my stance here then make your case and of course I will listen to it. Simply calling me didactic is not really compelling. 

You should read the article you cited instead of just rushing to look for an article with a title that at first blush can be misinterpreted to suport your unsupportable position.  The article actually makes the case that pre-emptive pardons such as Biden gave his family and the J6 Committee, pardons which obstruct justice which impede investigations, may be an impeachable offense.  The article does not make the case that pardoning the really guilty, after the fact of investigation or charging, and certainly not after trial is in any way an improper use of the power.

[Engorgeous George 1,884]

52 minutes ago, Fnord said:

And herein lies the root of the problems with him. Anything that is only theoretical, historical, normal, ethical, or acceptable does not exist. He will bend, warp, or break anything perceived to be in his way. And in tearing down the institutions with the ability and willingness to check his power and actions, he further enables his own abuse of the system. We are 2 days into this admin. My guess is it will take him about 6 months to really realize that he can do whatever, whenever he wants and will truly begin challenging the few weak guardrails remaining. 

I would agree that he abused the intended purpose of the pardon power by giving blanket pardons to a wide class of folks who can be considered his supporters without looking into the individual merits of the matters.  (I note that the founders made the power absolute so abuse was built in.  Those with integrity should ignore the temptation, but as we ahve seen integrity is in short supply, and going back decades upon decades.) I agree that he cannot negate the settled meaning of the 14th amendment by fiat.  It disturbs me that he is contemplating recess appointments just because the democrats are delaying votes to get his goat.  I mean, after all, the republicans pulled the same dumb stunt themselves seeking a bit of camera time to spread their own propoganda four short years ago. I suspect or expect that as this lame duck gets frustrated with the pace of anything he will take libertiesd with the constitution as I understand it.  I do not rust nor respect this venal little narcissist in the least.

[Fnord 1,769]

53 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

No disrespect, but EVERY administration does this.  Biden did it too.  Or the cabal that was actually running the country under Biden, that is.

I know you and I will never be on the same page about this stuff, so I'm just wasting keyboard strokes. But, fuk it.

While I agree to an extent, you have already seen Trump take this to the extreme. He happily does things no other POTUS has, out of lack of respect for history, norms, and institutions. One relatively benign example is blowing off the inauguration and transition when Biden came in. That's never happened before. And then there's that little (less benign) Jan 6 stunt, but I'm not getting into that with you. If you cannot see or admit that Trump will push the legal envelope in every direction, it is willful ignorance on your part.

What's your favorite line? IT'S INDISPUTABLE AT THIS POINT.

[Fnord 1,769]

53 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Will he be turning misdemeanors into felonies so he can have a previous president arrested and tried?  

I can only hope that is the extent of what he tries.

[Death 255]

2 hours ago, jonmx said:

Funny you list murderer for hire, then quote sources which say the government doesn't even know if those murders ever happened.  I don't know enough about this case to know if he deserved to be pardon.  I know his platform was used for a lot of bad things and he profited off of it.   So the quick look says no.

It's a fact that the two I mentioned have criminal histories and were convicted and sentenced for their roles in Jan. 6, and a lot of those who assaulted and seriously injured cops were let go as well.

Biden went pardon crazy as well, but I don't see Dr. Fauci or Milley as potentially violent down the road.

And then Trump went on to say yesterday that the Proud Boys asshat might have a seat at the political table.

There won't be much if any political fallout for the Biden pardons, but the 71-year-old woman sent to jail for her Jan. 6 roles declines Trump's pardon because it would be an insult to the police injured that day, you can bet folks are going to remember the Trump pardons during the midterms.

[jonmx 2,274]

11 minutes ago, Death said:

It's a fact that the two I mentioned have criminal histories and were convicted and sentenced for their roles in Jan. 6, and a lot of those who assaulted and seriously injured cops were let go as well.

 

Yeah, many of those Capitol Police were full of crap. I know one of the them paraded around every media outlet saying how badly he was beaten and couldn't walk, was seen walking around normally on video after supposedly being beaten.  I don't doubt there were a handful of psychopaths in the crowd, but our justice system is to assume innocence and instead it railroaded and strongarmed too many people unjustly into making harsh plea agreements.   So if a few low-lifes get out in order to release a thousand who were unjustly treat, I say think God finally.   You bootlickers make me sick. 

[Fnord 1,769]

Just now, jonmx said:

Yeah, many of those Capitol Police were full of crap. I know one of the who paraded around every media outlet saying how badly he was beaten and couldn't walk, was seen walking around normally on video after supposedly being beaten.  I don't doubt there were a handful of psychopaths in the crowd, but our justice system is to assume innocence and instead it railroaded and strongarmed too many people unjustly into making harsh plea agreements.   So if a few low-lifes get out in order to release a thousand who were unjustly treat, I say think God finally.   You bootlickers make me sick. 

You have no credibility whatsoever on this subject. You still claim nobody in the crowd was armed, which is a pathetic lie. You are a living oxymoron with emphasis on the last two syllables.

[Death 255]

8 minutes ago, jonmx said:

Yeah, many of those Capitol Police were full of crap. I know one of the them paraded around every media outlet saying how badly he was beaten and couldn't walk, was seen walking around normally on video after supposedly being beaten.  I don't doubt there were a handful of psychopaths in the crowd, but our justice system is to assume innocence and instead it railroaded and strongarmed too many people unjustly into making harsh plea agreements.   So if a few low-lifes get out in order to release a thousand who were unjustly treat, I say think God finally.   You bootlickers make me sick. 

Geez, we're having a civilized conversation here, and you got to throw in the bootlicker crap.

We'll see what tune you'll be singing when one of those violent dudes that Trump pardoned gets charged with murder or some other heinous crime.

It's going to happen.

Mark it down.

[jonmx 2,274]

2 minutes ago, Fnord said:

You have no credibility whatsoever on this subject. You still claim nobody in the crowd was armed, which is a pathetic lie. You are a living oxymoron with emphasis on the last two syllables.

Lol...I have lots of credibility....just not to the ignorantly bootlicking cucks I don't crap about.  Go fuk yourself you fuking moron.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,357]

43 minutes ago, Fnord said:

I can only hope that is the extent of what he tries.

Good because you cheered it on when it was done to him. Fraud. 

[Fnord 1,769]

18 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Good because you cheered it on when it was done to him. Fraud. 

If you didn't have whatabouts you'd have nothing. Go back to regurgitating un-linked non sequiturs and Tucker's talking points. You're pretty much useless for anything else.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,357]

Just now, Fnord said:

If you didn't have whatabouts you'd have nothing. Go back to regurgitating un-linked non sequiturs and Tucker's talking points. You're pretty much useless for anything else.

Truth hurts.  Fraud. 

[Fnord 1,769]

45 minutes ago, jonmx said:

Lol...I have lots of credibility....just not to the ignorantly bootlicking cucks I don't crap about.  Go fuk yourself you fuking moron.

So you admit that there were armed people in the crowd that day?

 

[Fnord 1,769]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

Truth hurts.  Fraud. 

There ya go. That's the Twatadour we all know and loathe!

[The Girlfriend 26]

3 minutes ago, Fnord said:

If you didn't have whatabouts you'd have nothing. Go back to regurgitating un-linked non sequiturs and Tucker's talking points. You're pretty much useless for anything else.

You’ll have to forgive him, he’s had a traumatic brain injury.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,357]

Why is this new weirdo fixated on me? I know I’m the big deal around here, but still. Laying in wait for years just to come at me? What a loser 

[The Real timschochet 5,494]

1 hour ago, Engorgeous George said:

You should read the article you cited instead of just rushing to look for an article with a title that at first blush can be misinterpreted to suport your unsupportable position.  The article actually makes the case that pre-emptive pardons such as Biden gave his family and the J6 Committee, pardons which obstruct justice which impede investigations, may be an impeachable offense.  The article does not make the case that pardoning the really guilty, after the fact of investigation or charging, and certainly not after trial is in any way an improper use of the power.

I did read the article. I think it makes a broad point and then offers examples that, while they don’t pertain to the current case, the broader point does. 

But in the end does any of this matter? There is no set definition of an impeachable offense anyhow. One of the articles against Andrew Johnson, if I remember correctly, was for “lewd behavior.” Obviously it’s very subjective. Thats why I think you’re flawed for attempting to challenge me on this. We can agree to disagree on whether or not Trump should be impeached for these pardons (theoretically since we both know it will never happen) but there aren’t any set rules on this. It’s completely arbitrary and based on opinion. 

[Fnord 1,769]

9 minutes ago, The Girlfriend said:

You’ll have to forgive him, he’s had a traumatic brain injury.

I'm not buying it. His head is too hard to be hurt by a projectile and saying he had a brain injury implies there is a brain to injure.

[TrailGuy 326]

9 minutes ago, The Girlfriend said:

You’ll have to forgive him, he’s had a traumatic brain injury.

🪴->

[The Girlfriend 26]

Just now, Fnord said:

I'm not buying it. His head is too hard to be hurt by a projectile and saying he had a brain injury implies there is a brain to injure.

 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,357]

I give good headache. 

[The Girlfriend 26]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I give good headache. 

That’s what your wife said.

[TrailGuy 326]

Just now, The Girlfriend said:

That’s what your wife said.

[Fnord 1,769]

4 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I give good headache. 

Are you my wife??

[TrailGuy 326]

What's HT's favorite bird?

 

 

DUCK!

[The Girlfriend 26]

17 minutes ago, TrailGuy said:

What's HT's favorite bird?

 

 

DUCK!

Let’s not hit him over the head with this.

[jonmx 2,274]

2 hours ago, Fnord said:

So you admit that there were armed people in the crowd that day?

 

Only a moron considers a flag pole to be arms or a couple of 2x4's with a rope as evidence they were actually planning to hang Pence.  You people are fuking stupid. 

[TrailGuy 326]

4 minutes ago, jonmx said:

Only a moron considers a flag pole to be arms or a couple of 2x4's with a rope as evidence they were actually planning to hang Pence.  You people are fuking stupid. 

You know what's good evidence that they wanted to hang Mike Pence?  Is when they were shouting HANG MIKE PENCE 

[squistion 1,725]

28 minutes ago, jonmx said:

Only a moron considers a flag pole to be arms or a couple of 2x4's with a rope as evidence they were actually planning to hang Pence.  You people are fuking stupid. 

Not a firearm, but a flag pole can be used as a weapon and was on a Capitol Police officer:

https://apnews.com/article/capitol-riot-peter-stager-sentencing-flagpole-01ab86604d3e25be81483fa5433f87ba

An Arkansas truck driver who beat a police officer with a flagpole attached to an American flag during the U.S. Capitol riot was sentenced Monday to more than four years in prison.

Peter Francis Stager struck the Metropolitan Police Department officer with his flagpole at least three times as other rioters pulled the officer, head first, into the crowd outside the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. The bruised officer was among more than 100 police officers injured during the riot.

[...]

After the beatings, Stager was captured on video saying, “Every single one of those Capitol law enforcement officers, death is the remedy. That is the only remedy they get.”

[...]

“Stager joined a prolonged, multi-assailant attack on police officers, which resulted in injuries to the officers,” they wrote. “Stager himself wielded a flagpole and used it to strike at a vulnerable officer, who, lying face down in a mob of rioters had no means of defending himself.”

[Fnord 1,769]

18 minutes ago, jonmx said:

Only a moron considers a flag pole to be arms or a couple of 2x4's with a rope as evidence they were actually planning to hang Pence.  You people are fuking stupid. 

I'm talking about guns, you complete imbecile. Actual guns. The ones that go bang and shoot bullets made of metal that kill people. You're probably cleaning stroking one right now.

I'd give you a dozen links but they'd be wasted on someone totally incapable of absorbing facts contrary to his own narrative. Every bank on earth wishes they had a vault as tightly closed as your nitwit noodle.

[The Girlfriend 26]

8 minutes ago, Fnord said:

I'm talking about guns, you complete imbecile. Actual guns. The ones that go bang and shoot bullets made of metal that kill people. You're probably cleaning stroking one right now.

I'd give you a dozen links but they'd be wasted on someone totally incapable of absorbing facts contrary to his own narrative. Every bank on earth wishes they had a vault as tightly closed as your nitwit noodle.

 

[TrailGuy 326]

One of the J6ers was throwing potted plants.  I'm glad he got a pardon.

[The Girlfriend 26]

2 minutes ago, TrailGuy said:

One of the J6ers was throwing potted plants.  I'm glad he got a pardon.

That hits about right.

[jbycho 287]

16 minutes ago, The Girlfriend said:

That hits about right.

Poor Rusty.

[jonmx 2,274]

46 minutes ago, Fnord said:

I'm talking about guns, you complete imbecile. Actual guns. The ones that go bang and shoot bullets made of metal that kill people. You're probably cleaning stroking one right now.

I'd give you a dozen links but they'd be wasted on someone totally incapable of absorbing facts contrary to his own narrative. Every bank on earth wishes they had a vault as tightly closed as your nitwit noodle.

 

47 minutes ago, Fnord said:

I'm talking about guns, you complete imbecile. Actual guns. The ones that go bang and shoot bullets made of metal that kill people. You're probably cleaning stroking one right now.

I'd give you a dozen links but they'd be wasted on someone totally incapable of absorbing facts contrary to his own narrative. Every bank on earth wishes they had a vault as tightly closed as your nitwit noodle.

There were zero people charged with having a gun inside the Capitol and certainly none were fired which is in huge contrast to your typical blm riot.   I believe there was one person charged with having a gun but he did not enter the  Capitol building.   Oh please send me your dozen bs links. 

[jonmx 2,274]

45 minutes ago, TrailGuy said:

One of the J6ers was throwing potted plants.  I'm glad he got a pardon.

How many low-life BLM protesters burned down buildings and were not investigated or charged.  Unless some private citizen video taped and ID the protestors, the FBI or police did not spend 5 minutes investigating.  I am so tired of you fuking dikweeds.  Trump won you loser.